No person (or very few) living today suffered those atrocities. That's like saying all German soldiers are evil because their army was genocidal 70 years ago, or every white person is evil because we drove Indians off their land. aka listen to the song "Guilty of Being White." And if you don't get the tongue-in-cheek of it, shame on you.
- jmatchett383

The above is moving the goalposts quite a bit...

Think any German soccer teams are going to work a swastika into their team logo any time soon?

It's actually nothing like calling all white people evil. If anything, that sounds like feelings of guilt to me. It's about acknowledging something and trying to make it better, not worse.

Is that a Ted Nugent song?

So it's also white America's fault that many large sections of black people live in the ghetto too, and we should cater to everything they find offensive?
- jmatchett383

It's common sense to try to make right for past wrongs even if it's not of your doing. If a tornado hit across the street and left your neighbors devastated would you turn your back on them because the tornado wasn't your fault.

And to the point, we're talking about a team name and logo. No one's sticking their hand in your pocket, why defend it so vigorously? You're coming across pretty heartless.

Is that a Ted Nugent song?
- wolfhounds

Minor Threat... aside from that song, their core mantra was no drugs, no alcohol, no promiscuity... sXe.

Let's just say I'm pretty sure that today, they're all drinking, smoking, screwing and have come to the realization that reverse racism, by definition, is a myth.

But the point remains valid... nobody says that because Group A committed atrocities to Group B in the past, that they should now be made to suffer for it. Only that Group A should at least try to be a little more cognizant of the power dynamic that allowed them to take advantage in the first place, and maybe approach Group B with a little more thought and care.
- Tomahawk

I'm sorry, and maybe I'mjust a horrible, unfeeling person, I just find it ridiculous that they find these names offensive. To me, they should be saying they have nothing to do with them, since their skin isn't red and they aren't Indians. I just really don't have a problem with it at all, and am sick of every interest group crying over every thing that they find upsetting.

I'm not trying to be cruel or mean to anyone's feelings, and I don't think those teams were set up that way either. The fact that people are taking offense, to me, is actually unwise for saying they are associated with those names.

I know that made no sense, so a horrible example: I'm walking down the hall, and someone yells, "Hey d!ckhead!" I won't turn around because, even if they're talking to me, I am not associating myself with that word.

So it's also white America's fault that many large sections of black people live in the ghetto too, and we should cater to everything they find offensive?
- jmatchett383

No, of course not, because slavery never really happened and the Jim Crow Laws didn't just end in 1965. Nothing to see here, there's no racism left in America.

Are you (frank)ing kidding me?

I guess we'll pretend that part about murdering them, diseasing them, stealing their ancestral lands, marching them, and confining them to reservations didn't happen.... what's a little ethnocentric appropriated branding on top of all that?
- Tomahawk

You get it

It's common sense to try to make right for past wrongs even if it's not of your doing. If a tornado hit across the street and left your neighbors devastated would you turn your back on them because the tornado wasn't your fault.

And to the point, we're talking about a team name and logo. No one's sticking their hand in your pocket, why defend it so vigorously? You're coming across pretty heartless.
- mayorofangrytown

I know I am. And if that makes me a bad person, then so be it. I really don't have a problem with it.
Having my neighbor's house destroyed and asking me to feel bad for something that happened before my birth are a bit different, to me.

I'm sorry, and maybe I'mjust a horrible, unfeeling person, I just find it ridiculous that they find these names offensive. To me, they should be saying they have nothing to do with them, since their skin isn't red and they aren't Indians. I just really don't have a problem with it at all, and am sick of every interest group crying over every thing that they find upsetting.

I'm not trying to be cruel or mean to anyone's feelings, and I don't think those teams were set up that way either. The fact that people are taking offense, to me, is actually unwise for saying they are associated with those names.

I know that made no sense, so a horrible example: I'm walking down the hall, and someone yells, "Hey d!ckhead!" I won't turn around because, even if they're talking to me, I am not associating myself with that word.
- jmatchett383

Notice how many times you said "I" there when talking about other people's feelings.

They need to hurry up and invent a machine where people can actually walk a day in somebody else's shoes... so many keystrokes would be saved.

No, of course not, because slavery never really happened and the Jim Crow Laws didn't just end in 1965. Nothing to see here, there's no racism left in America.

Are you (frank)ing kidding me?
- wolfhounds

Well I guess to make amends, as a white American, I should just give my house away to some less fortunate black people. Then I'll feel like I've done my part to help the cause.

Notice how many times you said "I" there when talking about other people's feelings.

They need to hurry up and invent a machine where people can actually walk a day in somebody else's shoes... so many keystrokes would be saved.
- Tomahawk

Yes. Those are my personal feelings. I wouldn't pretend to speak for anyone else. That's how I feel.

Well I guess to make amends, as a white American, I should just give my house away to some less fortunate black people. Then I'll feel like I've done my part to help the cause.
- jmatchett383

Bah, you're taking it too far. But to act as if black people living in ghettoes and making up the majority of prison population while a minority of the overall population can't be traced back to slavery and racism is like trying to disassociate light and warmth from the sun.

I know I am. And if that makes me a bad person, then so be it. I really don't have a problem with it.

- jmatchett383

Well then there you are.

Well then there you are.
- mayorofangrytown

Fair enough.

Look, if a team came out and wanted to start the New Jersey Indians and had a picture of a white guy whipping a slave line of Native Americans, then yes, I have a problem with it. But a smiling guy with bright skin and a feather in his head is not offensive in any way shape or form, as I see the situation.

Bah, you're taking it too far. But to act as if black people living in ghettoes and making up the majority of prison population while a minority of the overall population can't be traced back to slavery and racism is like trying to disassociate light and warmth from the sun.
- wolfhounds

That light and warmth hasn't been part of the sun for like eight minutes. Time to get over it already, jeez.

Also, I think part of it is what I call the "soccer mom mentality." That's where soccer moms go out of their way to find a problem with everything, argue for off-the-wall causes (remove "oral sex" from the dictionary because it hurts our children), argue about putting up a shed 2 blocks away that won't impact them, etc.) and I'm sick of it. So I guess I'm just fed up with people arguing over things that are, at least from my point of view, no really hurting anyone.

I know I am. And if that makes me a bad person, then so be it. I really don't have a problem with it.
Having my neighbor's house destroyed and asking me to feel bad for something that happened before my birth are a bit different, to me.
- jmatchett383

Who is asking you to feel bad?

Yes. Those are my personal feelings. I wouldn't pretend to speak for anyone else. That's how I feel.
- jmatchett383

Growing up in suburban KY, I used to be as homophobic as my buddies, throwing around epithets, joking, demeaning. Those were my personal feelings, and I didn't see any reason to change, since it was reinforced by my environment and nothing was really challenging me to broaden my perspectives.

Then I found out my big bro was gay.

Let's just say my world view got more nuanced in a hurry, and I feel like a much better person for it.

That light and warmth hasn't been part of the sun for like eight minutes. Time to get over it already, jeez.
- BulliesPhan87

Growing up in suburban KY, I used to be as homophobic as my buddies, throwing around epithets, joking, demeaning. Those were my personal feelings, and I didn't see any reason to change, since it was reinforced by my environment and nothing was really challenging me to broaden my perspectives.

Then I found out my big bro was gay.

Let's just say my world view got more nuanced in a hurry, and I feel like a much better person for it.
- Tomahawk

So you're saying that you think the Cleveland Indians' name and logo were set up specifically to be derogatory towards and belittle Native Americans?

More hockey talk, less racism/political talk please and thank you. I'm getting complaints but i'd really prefer not to ban any of you, but I will.


I'll get you started, I hate the Pens because....



Have fun.

So it's also white America's fault that many large sections of black people live in the ghetto too, and we should cater to everything they find offensive?
- jmatchett383

the PC crowd likes to ruin everything for everyone
I never thought about those names being racist until the PC people brought it up. The PC people are the true racists because they keep the idea of racism alive.

I never thought about those names being racist until the PC people brought it up. The PC people are the true racists because they keep the idea of racism alive.
- 2Real

You actually said that point I couldn't make.

More hockey talk, less racism/political talk please and thank you. I'm getting complaints but i'd really prefer not to ban any of you, but I will.


I'll get you started, I hate the Pens because....



Have fun.
- canadianpenfan

I hate the Pens because Kunutz is an Olympian that doesn't deserve to be there

That light and warmth hasn't been part of the sun for like eight minutes. Time to get over it already, jeez.
- BulliesPhan87