Only when coupled with a racist term, yes. I don't consider "Indians" to be a racist term.
- jmatchett383

I didn't want to get into this....

But the caricature is. And it's not always about being "racist". Wouldn't you feel weird if there was Minnesota Caucasians independent league baseball team? Yes. You would.

It's not insulting like Redskins, but it still needs to be changed. First step is changing the logo.

I'm really Glad Mez has gotten some regular ice time to round into form. Worrying about making mistakes and getting pulled for a month makes it hard to relax and play. I think the change in Systems & Forwards responsibilities has made all of our D look better.
- flyler

I'll tell you what...if he plays at half the level he was playing at a few years ago, that'd be incredibly clutch for this team

I didn't want to get into this....

But the caricature is. And it's not always about being "racist". Wouldn't you feel weird if there was Minnesota Caucasians independent league baseball team? Yes. You would.

It's not insulting like Redskins, but it still needs to be changed. First step is changing the logo.
- Giroux_Is_God

No i wouldnt.....

I didn't want to get into this....

But the caricature is. And it's not always about being "racist". Wouldn't you feel weird if there was Minnesota Caucasians independent league baseball team? Yes. You would.

It's not insulting like Redskins, but it still needs to be changed. First step is changing the logo.
- Giroux_Is_God

Maybe weird, but not insulted. I'd actually find it funny, actually. If there was a team called the "New Jersey White Men" I'd have no problem with it, and would find it especially funny if it had multiracial people on it, even if the logo was some caricature of some cranky old oil tycoon.

Lets start off by saying as a Pens fan I hate you all.

Now that that is out of the way, Giroux not making the team is insanely shocking. However the guys that don't deserve to be there over Giroux are not named Kunitz. Kuni brings a lot different of a skill set than Giroux does, the guys I would be mad about are Nash and Carter. Giroux is a high end skill guy not a full speed ahead workhorse like Kunitz is, they are just totally different players.


10 times out of 10 I pick Giroux over Nash and Carter.

Unfortunately for the Pens though I feel like this is going to light a huge fire under Giroux and that wont be good news for anyone.

I don't know the whole cultural make-up in the States but in Canada the using the name "red-skin" would get your ass kicked by most aboriginal/first nation people.

I don't know if its as offensive south of the border.
- flyer_nutter

It's not because we don't give a flying crap about native Americans. To people in the US they're either drunken lay about living on a dusty reservation/trailer park or Casino owners.

Only when coupled with a racist term, yes. I don't consider "Indians" to be a racist term.
- jmatchett383

Neither do I, but then again, who are we to make that call? I'm not Native American, I haven't suffered what they've suffered. And there's no doubt they've suffered quite a bit.

I could care less either way, I have no skin in this game, but changing a team name is an incredibly small gesture compared to broken treaties, reservations, smallpox and tribal genocide.

White people getting bent out of shape about this is as absurd as crusty old men making up laws about what women can and can't do with their bodies.

Lets start off by saying as a Pens fan I hate you all.

Now that that is out of the way, Giroux not making the team is insanely shocking. However the guys that don't deserve to be there over Giroux are not named Kunitz. Kuni brings a lot different of a skill set than Giroux does, the guys I would be mad about are Nash and Carter. Giroux is a high end skill guy not a full speed ahead workhorse like Kunitz is, they are just totally different players.


10 times out of 10 I pick Giroux over Nash and Carter.

Unfortunately for the Pens though I feel like this is going to light a huge fire under Giroux and that wont be good news for anyone.
- nbartley9

If you were able to trade Kunitz 1-for-1 for Giroux with no cap hit to worry about, would you do it?

Maybe weird, but not insulted. I'd actually find it funny, actually. If there was a team called the "New Jersey White Men" I'd have no problem with it, and would find it especially funny if it had multiracial people on it, even if the logo was some caricature of some cranky old oil tycoon.
- jmatchett383

I guess we'll pretend that part about murdering them, diseasing them, stealing their ancestral lands, marching them, and confining them to reservations didn't happen.... what's a little ethnocentric appropriated branding on top of all that?

- BulliesPhan87

No way that record sounds good.

And is it just me, or is that guy holding a cleaver with the front of his body covered in blood after killing his 12 member family because his dinner was cold once too often?

No i wouldnt.....
- PhillaBully

How about "Jarheads" with an outlandish logo exaggerating all the things that people attribute to Marines? Think that would offend some white people? Some people in the military? The Government?

Neither do I, but then again, who are we to make that call? I'm not Native American, I haven't suffered what they've suffered. And there's no doubt they've suffered quite a bit.

I could care less either way, I have no skin in this game, but changing a team name is an incredibly small gesture compared to broken treaties, reservations, smallpox and tribal genocide.

White people getting bent out of shape about this is as absurd as crusty old men making up laws about what women can and can't do with their bodies.
- wolfhounds

No person (or very few) living today suffered those atrocities. That's like saying all German soldiers are evil because their army was genocidal 70 years ago, or every white person is evil because we drove Indians off their land. aka listen to the song "Guilty of Being White." And if you don't get the tongue-in-cheek of it, shame on you.

No way that record sounds good.

And is it just me, or is that guy holding a cleaver with the front of his body covered in blood after killing his 12 member family because his dinner was cold once too often?
- wolfhounds

Only one way to find out. I'm not asking him, he looks like he doesn't want to be disturbed.

By the time the finals rolled around pronger was beat.
- twotoekenn

I know this is super late (and someone may have said this before...I didn't go through every page), but there was talk of Pronger getting the MVP if the flyers made it to game 7.

How about "Jarheads" with an outlandish logo exaggerating all the things that people attribute to Marines? Think that would offend some white people? Some people in the military? The Government?
- mayorofangrytown

Again, I'd find it funny, although I'm not a marine, so I can't say. As for my views on some of the more die-hard marines, that's a whole different discussion.

If you were able to trade Kunitz 1-for-1 for Giroux with no cap hit to worry about, would you do it?
- jmatchett383

My head says yes my heart says no, and being a center he would be delegated to 3rd line duties. Which doesn't make sense.

My head says yes my heart says no, and being a center he would be delegated to 3rd line duties. Which doesn't make sense.
- nbartley9

As a Flyers fan, speaking to a Pens fan, I first need to tell you I hate your filthy guts.

Now, I can also tell you that you are out of your (frank)ing mind.

My head says yes my heart says no, and being a center he would be delegated to 3rd line duties. Which doesn't make sense.
- nbartley9

Well we're talking about Team Canada, so it's a vacuum. Also for the record, Giroux broke into the league as a winger, so he could be a 1st line winger for Crosby.

No person (or very few) living today suffered those atrocities. That's like saying all German soldiers are evil because their army was genocidal 70 years ago, or every white person is evil because we drove Indians off their land. aka listen to the song "Guilty of Being White." And if you don't get the tongue-in-cheek of it, shame on you.
- jmatchett383

I think you'll find yourself uninformed if you looked into the current condition many of the Nations tribes live in. Refusing to give up hold on what little land the government left them and refusing to fully join a society that destroyed them.

Knowing that there's Native Americans on both sides of my family my Aunt spent a lot of time trying to find relatives. The records she found and the current condition of distant cousins were appalling. Both of the women who married into my family fled for their lives.

Well we're talking about Team Canada, so it's a vacuum. Also for the record, Giroux broke into the league as a winger, so he could be a 1st line winger for Crosby.
- jmatchett383

The scoring would be out of this world, but what happens when they start bashing each others heads in on the opening faceoff.

No person (or very few) living today suffered those atrocities. That's like saying all German soldiers are evil because their army was genocidal 70 years ago, or every white person is evil because we drove Indians off their land. aka listen to the song "Guilty of Being White." And if you don't get the tongue-in-cheek of it, shame on you.
- jmatchett383

If my dad killed somebody you loved in a DUI, as his son, I might be wise to consider that you might think it insensitive if I invited you over to my house for a rager.

As for Ian MacKaye... he wrote that song as a knucklehead teen and his world views have matured since then with more perspective and insight.

I think you'll find yourself uninformed if you looked into the current condition many of the Nations tribes live in. Refusing to give up hold on what little land the government left them and refusing to fully join a society that destroyed them.

Knowing that there's Native Americans on both sides of my family my Aunt spent a lot of time trying to find relatives. The records she found and the current condition of distant cousins were appalling. Both of the women who married into my family fled for their lives.
- mayorofangrytown

So it's also white America's fault that many large sections of black people live in the ghetto too, and we should cater to everything they find offensive?

If my dad killed somebody you loved in a DUI, as his son, I might be wise to consider that you might think it insensitive if I invited you over to my house for a rager.

As for Ian MacKaye... he wrote that song as a knucklehead teen and his world views have matured since then with more perspective and insight.
- Tomahawk

If it was my dad or someone else I knew and loved that intimately, yes. If it was my great grandfather and I never met him, I wouldn't be too crazy about it.

If it was my dad or someone else I knew and loved that intimately, yes. If it was my great grandfather and I never met him, I wouldn't be too crazy about it.
- jmatchett383

But the point remains valid... nobody says that because Group A committed atrocities to Group B in the past, that they should now be made to suffer for it. Only that Group A should at least try to be a little more cognizant of the power dynamic that allowed them to take advantage in the first place, and maybe approach Group B with a little more thought and care.