I think it comes back to the Briere level of "playing well." He was playing poorly overall, but the goals sugar-coated it.
- bradleyc4

Maybe not well. Let's just say Briere was much more effective as a center than winger. However, he wasn't good enough at center to usurp the young guys we have.

I feel Vinny is similar. He is much better at center than wing. RIGHT NOW, he's the 4th best center on the team. They can either play him on the wing ineffectively or move him to 4th line center, while also skating some shifts with the top line from time to time or playing the PP.

Being in second place right now is why there is a full season and you don't give up in your team after 15 games.

To all those who packed it in and wanted to gut half the roster:
- funmaster18

I hate to tell you this team still isnt good enough to be a SC contendor. In fact this is likely the worst thing that could happen. The team wont make any deadline deals to make the future better because they will be in the playoffs, and thier draft pick wont be high enough to make an differences.

Maybe not well. Let's just say Briere was much more effective as a center than winger. However, he wasn't good enough at center to usurp the young guys we have.

I feel Vinny is similar. He is much better at center than wing. RIGHT NOW, he's the 4th best center on the team. They can either play him on the wing ineffectively or move him to 4th line center, while also skating some shifts with the top line from time to time or playing the PP.
- PhillySportsGuy

The dude's got a fractured back. I'm ok with giving him the benefit of the doubt right now, but not necessarily ice time.

I don't think any Flyer will be better served by the Olympic break than Vinny.

I was thinking about this yesterday, with all of the Olympic hoopla and a couple of national writers giving their mid-season NHL reports.

With all of the talk of the Flyers' slow start and (HORROR!) Craig Berube taking over as coach, I'm still a bit surprised the turnaround hasn't been at least mentioned by national writers. It's like the Flyers are a non-entity, nationally, unless discussing the early season mediocrity of the Metro division or Claude Giroux's Olympic snub or Bryz signing with another team.
- johndewar

The team has been winning, but have they been dominant? Is there one area that you can say they are way better then anyone else? PP, PK, ES scoring, ES defense? Goaltending? They are all middle of the pack. They are winning close games, and they really arent dominating anyone. I give a lot of credit to Berube for getting what he is out of these guys. IMO if he had a better team around him, they would be a SCF team with his coaching.

The dude's got a fractured back. I'm ok with giving him the benefit of the doubt right now, but not necessarily ice time.

I don't think any Flyer will be better served by the Olympic break than Vinny.
- johndewar

I agree. That's why I said he's the 4th best right now. They can put him on the 4th line and give the "He's still working his way back and this will allow him to play less minutes" shtick. They can then use him on the PP and load up the 1st line on offensive zone face-offs.

I hate to tell you this team still isnt good enough to be a SC contendor. In fact this is likely the worst thing that could happen. The team wont make any deadline deals to make the future better because they will be in the playoffs, and thier draft pick wont be high enough to make an differences.
- youarewrong

The team has been winning, but have they been dominant? Is there one area that you can say they are way better then anyone else? PP, PK, ES scoring, ES defense? Goaltending? They are all middle of the pack. They are winning close games, and they really arent dominating anyone. I give a lot of credit to Berube for getting what he is out of these guys. IMO if he had a better team around him, they would be a SCF team with his coaching.
- youarewrong

If you take out the first 15 games, they are playing very well. They have averaged 3.3 goals per game. That would be 4th in the NHL. Goaltending and PK have both been good. They also haven't allowed more than 3 goals in a while. That includes the entire west coast trip against some pretty good offensive teams.

Not saying they are a stanley cup caliber team, but they are certainly playoff caliber.

I think it comes back to the Briere level of "playing well." He was playing poorly overall, but the goals sugar-coated it.
- bradleyc4

Agreed on VL. I wouldn't be as concerned if we didn't sign him for 5 years. I'm not hating on him and want him to do well, but was always worried about the length especially with all of the emerging young players. He doesn't fit in a checking role. I think they hoped he'd be solid enough that they could afford to move a young player for defense, but he hasn't made me feel comfortable doing that.

I'm hoping he can find some line mates to click with during the second half.

I just hate how the team needs to accommodate veteran players. They should understand that when certain lines find a groove, they should take a backseat and wait their turn. It's obvious that Raffl has good chemistry with G and Jake, the Schenn line is clinking and Coots works well with Downie and Read. If Vinny were a 2nd year forward making $850,000, he would be centering the 4th line right now.
- PhillySportsGuy

Yea. But Vinny isn't a second year player making $800,500. He's in his 15th year, making 4.5 mil (avg) a year for 4 years for a reason - he has the pedigree that Raffl will only dream of having. Sit Vinny and let him play 4th line minutes until Raffl cools off?

I'd have to think hard before I'd decide to allow Raffl to get comfortable at the expense of a proven player like Lecavalier. That probably wouldn't be the best decision in the long run if the Flyers want to make a serious run towards the Cup.

I don't think Vinny is dead weight. He played well earlier this year when no one else was playing well. He's coming off an injury and is playing out of position. This is the same problem they had with Briere. He wasn't good on the wing, but wasn't one of the 3 best centers on the team.

I don't think the 19-10-17 line is the answer. They are hot right now, but all three of those guys are very streaky. There will come a time when Vinny will assume 2nd line center again. I guarantee it.
- PhillySportsGuy

It sure is possible they go cold. But Schenn is really starting to assert himself as a center and not a left wing. He is better in all facets of the game. He is staying on his skates this year instead of diving and floundering on the ice.

There will be more injuries I'm sure so in the grand scheme we shouldn't worry about all this. But if Read comes back I move Downie to the 4th and keep a line of Vinny-Cooter-Read together to see if they can figure it out

So,

Who was to blame for the second devils goal?

I hate to tell you this team still isnt good enough to be a SC contendor. In fact this is likely the worst thing that could happen. The team wont make any deadline deals to make the future better because they will be in the playoffs, and thier draft pick wont be high enough to make an differences.
- youarewrong

Yeah id hate to see them go on a long playoff run too

The Flyers have 94 more penalty minutes than 2nd place Toronto despite playing 1 less game.

Yea. But Vinny isn't a second year player making $800,500. He's in his 15th year, making 4.5 mil (avg) a year for 4 years for a reason - he has the pedigree that Raffl will only dream of having. Sit Vinny and let him play 4th line minutes until Raffl cools off?

I'd have to think hard before I'd decide to allow Raffl to get comfortable at the expense of a proven player like Lecavalier. That probably wouldn't be the best decision in the long run if the Flyers want to make a serious run towards the Cup.
- 77rams

Raffl is doing so much more than scoring on that top line. Whoever mentioned him busting his ass to get back on rushes against nailed it on the head. He also gets the puck and skates it hard up the ice, is the first body in on the forecheck. Vinny can't dream of getting to these crucial areas as fast as Raffl can.

The Flyers have 94 more penalty minutes than 2nd place Toronto despite playing 1 less game.
- PhillySportsGuy

Flyers gonna fly

Yea. But Vinny isn't a second year player making $800,500. He's in his 15th year, making 4.5 mil (avg) a year for 4 years for a reason - he has the pedigree that Raffl will only dream of having. Sit Vinny and let him play 4th line minutes until Raffl cools off?

I'd have to think hard before I'd decide to allow Raffl to get comfortable at the expense of a proven player like Lecavalier. That probably wouldn't be the best decision in the long run if the Flyers want to make a serious run towards the Cup.
- 77rams

I just believe in playing the best players at that time. If Vinny isn't one of the best 9 players, then he shouldn't be in the top 9.

If you take out the first 15 games, they are playing very well. They have averaged 3.3 goals per game. That would be 4th in the NHL. Goaltending and PK have both been good. They also haven't allowed more than 3 goals in a while. That includes the entire west coast trip against some pretty good offensive teams.

Not saying they are a stanley cup caliber team, but they are certainly playoff caliber.
- PhillySportsGuy

Yes they are Playoff caliber, and right now I think they are playing well because when one line cools off another gets hot. IMO its inevitable that there will be another cold streak. Berube is doing great for this team and getting every bit he can. But he just doesnt have the right pieces.

I'm hoping Brayden can keep his play up, as long as he does that line will follow suit. Is it almost time to nickname that line? Crash and burn??

So,

Who was to blame for the second devils goal?
- moonwasaloon1

I forget. I'm pretty sure Streit was responsible for Henrique having a dinner party all alone on the first goal.

Being in second place right now is why there is a full season and you don't give up in your team after 15 games.

To all those who packed it in and wanted to gut half the roster:
- funmaster18

meh second place in the weakest division. If you look at point totals its still very discouraging.

WHen it gets time, this is what I would do.

JV-CG-VL
SH-BS-WS
MR-SC-SD
ZR-AH-MRTickt

Yes they are Playoff caliber, and right now I think they are playing well because when one line cools off another gets hot. IMO its inevitable that there will be another cold streak. Berube is doing great for this team and getting every bit he can. But he just doesnt have the right pieces.
- youarewrong

So by losing more and getting the 10th pick instead of the 18-22nd pick will make the team better?

Edit: I can guarantee you that every team will hit a cold streak between now and the end of the season.

WHen it gets time, this is what I would do.

JV-CG-VL
SH-BS-WS
MR-SC-SD
ZR-AH-MRTickt
- MBFlyerfan

They tried Vinny on the top line and it didn't really work. They've tried several people and the current group has done the best by far.

I forget. I'm pretty sure Streit was responsible for Henrique having a dinner party all alone on the first goal.
- PhillySportsGuy

Couturier was floating in the slot on that first one, too. He had an opportunity to do more than try a weak poke at the puck, but was barely moving his feet.

Couturier was floating in the slot on that first one, too. He had an opportunity to do more than try a weak poke at the puck, but was barely moving his feet.
- tangent_man

He seems much more confused and unsure of himself when Vinny is on the ice. I wonder if Vinny drifts because he's used to playing center. There just appears to be more breakdowns than I'm used to seeing with Couturier.

I think it's a bit odd for Vinny to be a part of the 'shutdown' line and constantly face the top offensive players. He used to playing against the other team's best defensive players.