The "2nd line" - Hartnell, Schenn, Simmonds - isn't nearly as dangerous as they should be 5 v 5. If I'm tinkering, that's where I start.
- wolfhounds

I agree, but I think we're logjammed in the top 9 and that's the issue. With Raffle playing well on the top line there's no room for Hartnell or SImmonds to move up there and thus move Vinnie Back to line 2 with Schenn and Hartnell/Simmonds and then Downie gets his spot back with Couts and Read.

Don't get me wrong, its a great problem to have but I think it'll lead to either Downie becoming non-relevant or Raffl getting pushed down after what appears to be a bad game or two.

A trade maybe? Either that or start sitting Rinaldo and let VanDevelde play 4th line with Downie/Raffl and Hall.

Which is even more stupid than deciding a NHL game with one.

If the NHL ever adopted the shootout in the playoffs, I serious think I would cease being a fan.
- Jsaquella

I wouldn't, I'd just gripe and complain about Bettman even more than before.

No idea what your talking about... but I wish I did.
- youarewrong

Google Sharks Canucks penalty box

Pond Hockey? where? in the NHL?

We are still talking about the NHL, no?
- puckhead17

Pond hockey is still hockey.

The absence of "team concept, no defensive strategy, & actually no coaching involved" doesn't make it any less so.

if the shootout is here to stay, then at least make every game a three point game. i can't stand how some games are worth three points and others are worth two.

regulation win = 3 pts
overtime/so win = 2 pts
overtime/so loss = 1 pt

Go kanida! I am hoping the return of Reinhart helps them. Canada will have to pick it up big time to beat the us here. .
- Hextall271

Then the 1976-77 Canadiens would have had 192 points instead of 132, even though there was no OT back then, it would tarnish the records too much, a team with a worse record today would finish with more points, (I think)
- puckhead17

The inclusion of the overtime point already tarnished it. Just have 2 records. 1 prior to point adjustment, and one post.

But they have ties now, and award an extra point for winning a skills competition. The hockey game, the actual sport part, ended in a tie...the shootout isn't hockey. It's guys practicing breakaways.

I just find it dumb to decide a "winner" by not playing the actual sport. Why not just have each team send a goon out and the winner of the fight wins the game
- Jsaquella

It's not ideal, I agree, but it's better, imo, then stopping the game at the end of regulation with both teams having the same score and calling that complete. I remember leaving the Spectrum back in the day at the end of a tied game and it was just so very unsatisfying.

And the NHL is trying to find a happy balance by giving us the 4 on 4 5 minute OT before the shootout. To me, that's much better then a game ending after 60 minutes with no winner and each team getting a point.

Some of the greatest games I've ever seen have ended in ties. I don't see what the big deal is if two teams play to a draw. Hopefully the tide is turning against the shootout. They've already acknowledged that a win in a shoot out is not equal to a win in regulation or overtime. Let's just ditch it already.
- mayorofangrytown

Agreed. I can accept the feeling that seeing a game end in a tie feels poopty, but so does seeing a game end in a loss for your preferred team. Part of why I'd like to see ties come back is to restore some urgency at the end of the game.

Prepare yourselves for an upset tonight boys!
- Colin Dambrauskas

I'm already upset the game is so late. Carry on.

if the shootout is here to stay, then at least make every game a three point game. i can't stand how some games are worth three points and others are worth two.

regulation win = 3 pts
overtime/so win = 2 pts
overtime/so loss = 1 pt
- -davies-

yes, this please

The inclusion of the overtime point already tarnished it. Just have 2 records. 1 prior to point adjustment, and one post.
- youarewrong

There should be no "loser point".

This was probably put in to make the "participation trophy" set happy.....

It's not ideal, I agree, but it's better, imo, then stopping the game at the end of regulation with both teams having the same score and calling that complete. I remember leaving the Spectrum back in the day at the end of a tied game and it was just so very unsatisfying.

And the NHL is trying to find a happy balance by giving us the 4 on 4 5 minute OT before the shootout. To me, that's much better then a game ending after 60 minutes with no winner and each team getting a point.
- wolfhounds

Not to me. I hate the shootout. It's a pure gimmick and a cheap way to settle the game.

If I'm watching a great, entertaining game, with lots of action, hitting and great plays, my reaction when they go to a shootout is one of disappointment and anger, because it's simply not fun for me at all.

For every great goal by a Giroux or Datsyuk, there's three shots that go wide or get stuffed into a goalie's leg pad. I don't feel a sense of victory after a shootout win. I feel dejection.

if the shootout is here to stay, then at least make every game a three point game. i can't stand how some games are worth three points and others are worth two.

regulation win = 3 pts
overtime/so win = 2 pts
overtime/so loss = 1 pt
- -davies-

i dunno, that's close to right but I don't like getting points for any loss. Seems stupid that a team can climb the rankings by losing.

Pond hockey is still hockey.

The absence of "team concept, no defensive strategy, & actually no coaching involved" doesn't make it any less so.
- johndewar

again, this has nothing to do with the reality of the NHL, if the puck misses we don't shout for someone to toss it back, do we?

Not to me. I hate the shootout. It's a pure gimmick and a cheap way to settle the game.

If I'm watching a great, entertaining game, with lots of action, hitting and great plays, my reaction when they go to a shootout is one of disappointment and anger, because it's simply not fun for me at all.

For every great goal by a Giroux or Datsyuk, there's three shots that go wide or get stuffed into a goalie's leg pad. I don't feel a sense of victory after a shootout win. I feel dejection.
- Jsaquella

To give credit to the league, my heart is racing during a shootout.

Some of the greatest games I've ever seen have ended in ties. I don't see what the big deal is if two teams play to a draw. Hopefully the tide is turning against the shootout. They've already acknowledged that a win in a shoot out is not equal to a win in regulation or overtime. Let's just ditch it already.
- mayorofangrytown

No doubt, good games can certainly end in a tie, but you'd be hard pressed to convince me a good game isn't made better by having a clear cut winner.

The only thing that really makes sense is they keep playing until someone wins. 10 minutes of 4 v 4 hockey would most likely settle the majority of OT games, then you knock a man off each time for the next 10 minutes. Then I'm not sure what to do if goes that far...

Not to me. I hate the shootout. It's a pure gimmick and a cheap way to settle the game.

If I'm watching a great, entertaining game, with lots of action, hitting and great plays, my reaction when they go to a shootout is one of disappointment and anger, because it's simply not fun for me at all.

For every great goal by a Giroux or Datsyuk, there's three shots that go wide or get stuffed into a goalie's leg pad. I don't feel a sense of victory after a shootout win. I feel dejection.
- Jsaquella

But what if you're watching a horribly played, one-sided game, where, say, a goalie bails his entire defense for 64 minutes, and then--say, blanks the dominant team in three consecutive frames.

Surely, the Flyers "deserved" two points last night.

again, this has nothing to do with the reality of the NHL, if the puck misses we don't shout for someone to toss it back, do we?
- puckhead17

Stick handling, accurate shooting, good goaltending.

Which one of those is not part of hockey?

Because that's all the shootout is. And all of those things are part of hockey.

If you want to call it "artificial", then fine.

Gimmicky? Sorry, you're not using that word right.

Pond hockey is still hockey.

The absence of "team concept, no defensive strategy, & actually no coaching involved" doesn't make it any less so.
- johndewar

The lack of rules and officials means that it's not NHL hockey and really has no bearing on the sport, though.

The NHL has boards, rules and refs. I've never seen a ref at pond hockey.

I mean, two hand touch is football...but it's nothing close to the NFL's style or level

if the shootout is here to stay, then at least make every game a three point game. i can't stand how some games are worth three points and others are worth two.

regulation win = 3 pts
overtime/so win = 2 pts
overtime/so loss = 1 pt
- -davies-

I have a solution for all.

3 points for regulation win.

2 Points for OT win. (5 min 4 on 4, 5 min 3 on 3)

1 Point for Tie. ( playing 3 on 3 for 5 minutes your not likely to get too many ties, even football has ties, its just rare.)

0 points for a loss at any time.

The point is to win the game in regulation. If you cant do that, then you lose a point, even if you win. Then you have to win in OT, or you lose another point in a tie.

IMO the better teams will rise to the top. The teams that win in regulation. The teams that rely on OT to playing close defensive games will be in trouble because while the good teams are getting 3 points, they will only be getting 2... if they win.

But what if you're watching a horribly played, one-sided game, where, say, a goalie bails his entire defense for 64 minutes, and then--say, blanks the dominant team in three consecutive frames.

Surely, the Flyers "deserved" two points last night.
- Moose_15

Well, one Flyer did deserve two points last night

It's not ideal, I agree, but it's better, imo, then stopping the game at the end of regulation with both teams having the same score and calling that complete. I remember leaving the Spectrum back in the day at the end of a tied game and it was just so very unsatisfying.

And the NHL is trying to find a happy balance by giving us the 4 on 4 5 minute OT before the shootout. To me, that's much better then a game ending after 60 minutes with no winner and each team getting a point.
- wolfhounds

There's probably no way in eradicating it all together, (shootout), minimizing it would be better, I have no problem with increasing the OT, I love the overtime, vs ending it after 60 minutes tied, some variation of an overtime adds to the drama of the game, even though it's minimized during the regular season

Well, one Flyer did deserve two points last night
- Jsaquella

Yes. Yes he did.

To give credit to the league, my heart is racing during a shootout.
- JAKEw1234

Mine doesn't. I'm far more excited in OT