I think he's prone to really dumb mistakes at really bad times. The puck mistakes are what they are, but there's a few unforced icings late in games and a few memorable blown coverages that ended up in the net.

One was in the 2-1 win over the Pens-the only goal Pittsburgh got was because Grossmann left Crosby. There's been a few others, too.

I love the heart and effort Grossmann brings...but I do feel that he gets praised a bit more than he deserves. And yes, I might be a bit too harsh.

And yes, Streit's play has been a bigger issue than Grossmann's. Zero question about it.
- Jsaquella

I think you are scrapping too much on Grossman, as well as maybe Mez, I'm not in love with either, but, what & whom can I live with moving forward, vs who is just a complete mess that brings nothing to the table.
It's pretty impossible to alter your D completely, so it's what I can live with vs what makes sense to cut ties with as soon as possible, Grossman does most of the things he's paid to do, and maybe he's asked to do much because we don't have enough serviceable players to do those things

Wasn't a smart move. But he's an asset to this team more so than Schenn. Grossman is the only player on the team who even trys to block shots anymore. For that I don't mind.

Him going down to block a pass attempt was a good plan, bad position.
- Flyersgod

Not saying he isn't. But praising him, to me, is like praising a trashman for putting the cans back on the curb upright, rather than tossing them in the street.

I'm not going to rip one guy for poor play and dumb mistakes and excuse another guy because he's got heart & blocks shots. I don't dislike Grossmann, but he's hardly Rod Langway out there.

The thing is, the Rangers can slot Schenn in with a guy like Stralmann and have a nice solid pair that compliments each other. MDZ wasn't even dressing for them and they needed defense help.

I agree Streit's been a far bigger issue than Grossmann. My issue isn't necessarily Grossmann-it's the praise he gets for simply being OK.
- Jsaquella

I will praise a guy who throws his frame into shots multiple times every night over someone who tries spinoramas at the blue line with a man on them, as well as a guy who is paid to do one thing only & he can't even do that, I've lost all patience with Streit, so much that I can live with Grossman's inconsistencies over a guy who doesn't belong here.

No. Luke schenn is a waste of orange fabric
- Just5

Do you rip others this bad when they make any bone headed plays?

I think you are kinding missing the point here. Grossman is a physical shot blocking dman who plays a steady game. He gets praise when he plays that way.

Streit is an offensive guy who is terrible in the dzone. He caught heat because he's been bad in all areas of the ice.
- Flyersgod

Trouble is, what good is steady when you make bad coverage mistakes and handle puck badly and those things lead to bad goals against?

I'm not defending Streit or Schenn. I'm being critical of praising Grossmann when he's really not been that great himself.

Not saying he isn't. But praising him, to me, is like praising a trashman for putting the cans back on the curb upright, rather than tossing them in the street.

I'm not going to rip one guy for poor play and dumb mistakes and excuse another guy because he's got heart & blocks shots. I don't dislike Grossmann, but he's hardly Rod Langway out there.
- Jsaquella

I like the trash man analogy, & I will go one further, Streit wouldn't even empty your cans all the way, or miss them all together, he needs to be addressed before Grossman, just wondering if management sees this & what they can do

Your shredding our only pure shot blocker more so than the obvious

I will praise a guy who throws his frame into shots multiple times every night over someone who tries spinoramas at the blue line with a man on them, as well as a guy who is paid to do one thing only & he can't even do that, I've lost all patience with Streit, so much that I can live with Grossman's inconsistencies over a guy who doesn't belong here.
- puckhead17

I'm not really saying that Scenn or Streit shouldn't be ripped. What I am saying is, that praising Grossmann at the same time doesn't seem logical.

I like the trash man analogy, & I will go one further, Streit wouldn't even empty your cans all the way, or miss them all together, he needs to be addressed before Grossman, just wondering if management sees this & what they can do

Your shredding our only pure shot blocker more so than the obvious
- puckhead17

No, I'm not. Streit's play has been horrific at both ends of the ice. Schenn's made a ton of really bad mental mistakes, both with the puck and in positioning and coverage. I'm simply saying that if we're going to shred their mistakes, why does Grossmann get a pass?

Do you rip others this bad when they make any bone headed plays?
- ob18

Yes I will. I'm man enough to do it. I crack my knuckles then get to typing

I'm not really saying that Scenn or Streit shouldn't be ripped. What I am saying is, that praising Grossmann at the same time doesn't seem logical.
- Jsaquella

No I do see your point, but, I live with Grossman everyday over Streit, Luke I don't know what to do with

No I do see your point, but, I live with Grossman everyday over Streit, Luke I don't know what to do with
- puckhead17

Sure. I agree with that...I just don't get celebrating a guy because he's the tallest midget. That he's been more solid than two guys that have been really subpar shouldn't ecilpse that he's been pretty average-at best-himself

No, I'm not. Streit's play has been horrific at both ends of the ice. Schenn's made a ton of really bad mental mistakes, both with the puck and in positioning and coverage. I'm simply saying that if we're going to shred their mistakes, why does Grossmann get a pass?
- Jsaquella

Because he's been better then the others you mention, listen, if all of Streit's bad gaffs ended up in the net, imagine how much worse he would look. I don't dismiss a bad play because Mason bailed the guy out.

Grossman makes less mistakes than schenn while garnering more ice time and tougher matchups. Luke schenn makes a major physical or mental gaff every game. He's slower than grossman in every meaning of the word

Sure. I agree with that...I just don't get celebrating a guy because he's the tallest midget. That he's been more solid than two guys that have been really subpar shouldn't ecilpse that he's been pretty average-at best-himself
- Jsaquella

And you said it, I'll keep average for now, but below average has to be dealt with, the thing that gets me is that if Streit was any good, the islanders would have done all they could do to keep him, and they have defensive issues now as well, but still saw fit to let him go
When you see a guy that no one else wants, man here we come with the cash

I was going to post something about Schenn's play on the spin o rama as well. What a terrible decision as the last guy back and he owes Mase big time for making that save on the resulting break away. Stupid play and he needs to eliminate those mistakes from his game.

Good work coming through in the Shoot Out. Really need this game because of the tough road ahead here.
- Hextall271

It was brutal. A completely mindless play by L. Schenn. Lack of hockey sense doing something so dumb. Tie game on the road, late third period, and he pulls that garbage?

Sure Grossmann makes mistakes, but he plays hard and gives it everything he has every shift. He has limitations, but what 4-5 dman doesn't?

Maybe the expectations for L. Schenn are out of whack, but when the Flyers trade a goal scoring power forward for him, you are damned right the expectations are going to be high.
That trade looks so bad it should be the nail in Holmgren's coffin.

Because he's been better then the others you mention, listen, if all of Streit's bad gaffs ended up in the net, imagine how much worse he would look. I don't dismiss a bad play because Mason bailed the guy out.
- puckhead17

I'm not dismissing Schenn's bad play. It was incredibly stupid. It was extremely high risk and had very, very little reward(at best he keeps the puck in the zone). It's the kind of mistake that should result in a scratch.

And you said it, I'll keep average for now, but below average has to be dealt with, the thing that gets me is that if Streit was any good, the islanders would have done all they could do to keep him, and they have defensive issues now as well, but still saw fit to let him go
When you see a guy that no one else wants, man here we come with the cash
- puckhead17

Isles offered him the next best deal. I believe 3 yrs 4.75. If the flyers weren't out in the market being the flyers he'd be an isle.

Grossman makes less mistakes than schenn while garnering more ice time and tougher matchups. Luke schenn makes a major physical or mental gaff every game. He's slower than grossman in every meaning of the word
- Just5

And that somehow excuses Grossmann's mistakes and makes his average level of play worth praise?

It was brutal. A completely mindless play by L. Schenn. Lack of hockey sense doing something so dumb. Tie game on the road, late third period, and he pulls that garbage?

Sure Grossmann makes mistakes, but he plays hard and gives it everything he has every shift. He has limitations, but what 4-5 dman doesn't?

Maybe the expectations for L. Schenn are out of whack, but when the Flyers trade a goal scoring power forward for him, you are damned right the expectations are going to be high.
That trade looks so bad it should be the nail in Holmgren's coffin.
- PLindbergh31

To call JVR a goal-scoring anything at the time of that trade is asinine.

Yes I will. I'm man enough to do it. I crack my knuckles then get to typing
- Just5

Don't forget to roll your neck.

I'm not dismissing Schenn's bad play. It was incredibly stupid. It was extremely high risk and had very, very little reward(at best he keeps the puck in the zone). It's the kind of mistake that should result in a scratch.
- Jsaquella

I think you thought Grossman's was worse because of the end result, I was mad & wondering what Grossman was doing as well, I guess it comes to what I can live with vs what I can't, vs what needs to go now, (I think that describes all 3 D men to the topic)

To call JVR a goal-scoring anything at the time of that trade is asinine.
- hereticpride

No it's not. He had a 20 goal season under his belt, and was on pace for 20+ goals before his final season as a Flyers was derailed by injuries.

It's a bottom line business, and the results of that trade are so one sided it's not even funny.

Don't forget to roll your neck.
- wolfhounds

And the stone cold head wag as well.

I think you thought Grossman's was worse because of the end result, I was mad & wondering what Grossman was doing as well, I guess it comes to what I can live with vs what I can't, vs what needs to go now, (I think that describes all 3 D men to the topic)
- puckhead17

Grossmann's end result was worse, I'm not dismissing the level of stupidity.

Unfortunately, we're living with all 3. But I'm not going to give praise to a guy I see as being average because two other guys suck

No it's not. He had a 20 goal season under his belt, and was on pace for 20+ goals before his final season as a Flyers was derailed by injuries.

It's a bottom line business, and the results of that trade are so one sided it's not even funny.
- PLindbergh31

It is a bad trade, although, they are crying in Toronto about how he's not scoring enough, so ow about that.