You're right.

Out of principle, the Leaf's shouldn't offer players what they're valued league-wide, they should just use their own, lower valuations.


I'm sure players will line up to play for us.

It worked in the Ballard years, right?
- Feeling Glucky?

pay the ones who are worth it (kessel) and jettison the guys who arent (phaneuf)

destroy the culture of entitlement and eventually you build something proper.

the ranger and flyers have been trying to buy their way to a cup for years... rangers won it last when?

So, greedy player will get paid and put their teams in bad situations because of it, Ala Nashville. Impressive leadership skills there..
- bixll

So, you're basically saying Weber is a bad leader because he cashed in?


Teams wont be in bad positions because. *Ready for it*... The salary cap is... *Here it comes!*.. going up.


Did you honestly think every single player was going to signed for the same, or a lower amount of money, and teams would have 6 million in free cash laying around to spend on players in free agency?

And then rumors of the cap going up between 80-90million in the next 2 years?

How he gets credit for leading the team to the playoffs in a weak eastern conference during a shorten season is beyond me.
Many more things outside of Dion got the team to the post season. It was the lack of real leadership that lead to the game 7 implosion.....thats what Dion can take part credit for!

- Fakepartofme

Lack of leadership.. Do you remember when the Bruins had 4 chances to eliminate the Flyers but couldn't close the deal. Are you going to say the Bruins have a lack of leadership?

Your getting Dion for 7 more years, deal with it...why discuss it, reports are out its being finalized...Done deal, just putting a bow on it for ya

So, you're basically saying Weber is a bad leader because he cashed in?


Teams wont be in bad positions because. *Ready for it*... The salary cap is... *Here it comes!*.. going up.


Did you honestly think every single player was going to signed for the same, or a lower amount of money, and teams would have 6 million in free cash laying around to spend on players in free agency?

And then rumors of the cap going up between 80-90million in the next 2 years?
- jbold

Totally... Sid tried to sign for less, each of his last 2 contracts, and the PA prevented it.

Leaders don't cripple their team for profit.

Your getting Dion for 7 more years, deal with it...why discuss it, reports are out its being finalized...Done deal, just putting a bow on it for ya
- poohcrumbs

Good stuff

when the cap rises to 80 million in the next 2-3 seasons, it'll be a bargain

Lack of leadership.. Do you remember when the Bruins had 4 chances to eliminate the Flyers but couldn't close the deal. Are you going to say the Bruins have a lack of leadership?
- BetterCallSaul

do one about when the young Pens got beat by the Senators and Crosby is a bad leader

Everyone has been saying he's a horrible leader not just this year my point is if everyone likes to focus solely on the negatives with the leafs. If we are purely focusing on this year he has been much better then let and and karlsso who are so called superstars.
- Yeti1181

so whats the good aspects of his game?

how he consistently gets beat to the outside?

how he doesnt hustle worth a crap?

how HIS team seems to implode on themselves frequently?

how his shot routinely misses the net?

what positives are you refering to? the fact he plays tough minutes against the toughest competition in the league? yeah, you're right.. and the leafs give up the most shots per game and are dropping in the standings like a stone in water. doesnt make it much of an argument really... not when you look at the entire picture.

Top UFA's every year sign for way less than "market value", its something the NHLPA encourages
- poohcrumbs

there are examples of guys around the league who take less than market value to stay with the team.

thats what a real leader does.

so whats the good aspects of his game?

how he consistently gets beat to the outside?

how he doesnt hustle worth a crap?

how HIS team seems to implode on themselves frequently?

how his shot routinely misses the net?

what positives are you refering to? the fact he plays tough minutes against the toughest competition in the league? yeah, you're right.. and the leafs give up the most shots per game and are dropping in the standings like a stone in water. doesnt make it much of an argument really... not when you look at the entire picture.
- Dozzer

That is ALL Dions fault, you are right...1 man makes the team

no no.. move dion.. sign a couple mid level reliable guys in the offseason and continue to mold the young core.

you are looking at a D that can consist of rielly, gardiner, franson (tho i think he should be moved as well) liles (as one of the mid tier veteran guys) gunnar, reliable but needs surgery, with guys like percy, and granberg, and macwilliam etc filling out the ranks.

they wouldnt be any worse than they are now and they'd be cheaper.
- Dozzer

Just because you say they won't be worse doesn't mean it's true.

Remember how Franson and Fraser look worse when they get exposed to harder competition?

It applies to everyone.

Phaneuf takes the hardest competition on the team. He logs the most minutes. He insulates everyone else.

He's not a mid-level guy, and replacing him with a mid-level guy means you're getting lesser performance. A worse top-pairing means more goals against.

Who gives a (frank) if it's cheaper if it doesn't get the job done?

Those mid-level guys you want are going to cost you at least 5M a piece. Because of a rising cap, and not being able to front load contracts. Why not sign one mid-level guy to play WITH Dion?

It'll be a 12M pairing instead of a 10M pairing(assuming you could even sign those two guys), and it'll be much better.

Your getting Dion for 7 more years, deal with it...why discuss it, reports are out its being finalized...Done deal, just putting a bow on it for ya
- poohcrumbs

oh we know.. i dont have to like it..

there are examples of guys around the league who take less than market value to stay with the team.

thats what a real leader does.
- Dozzer

Guess Weber isnt a real leader

oh we know.. i dont have to like it..
- Dozzer

No you dont, not sure if I do..is what it is though

You're right.

Out of principle, the Leaf's shouldn't offer players what they're valued league-wide, they should just use their own, lower valuations.


I'm sure players will line up to play for us.

It worked in the Ballard years, right?
- Feeling Glucky?

It's baffling how people can be against re-signing Dion.

He is the best defenceman on the team - by a mile. Nobody else is even close.

If he hit UFA at the end of the year, he would get $8 milly or more.

The Leafs lack talent on the blueline. They cannot afford to let him go.

/discussion

Just because you say they won't be worse doesn't mean it's true.

Remember how Franson and Fraser look worse when they get exposed to harder competition?

It applies to everyone.

Phaneuf takes the hardest competition on the team. He logs the most minutes. He insulates everyone else.

He's not a mid-level guy, and replacing him with a mid-level guy means you're getting lesser performance. A worse top-pairing means more goals against.

Who gives a (frank) if it's cheaper if it doesn't get the job done?

Those mid-level guys you want are going to cost you at least 5M a piece. Because of a rising cap, and not being able to front load contracts. Why not sign one mid-level guy to play WITH Dion?

It'll be a 12M pairing instead of a 10M pairing(assuming you could even sign those two guys), and it'll be much better.
- Feeling Glucky?

But, because you say, it will. It will.. I get it.

Just because you say they won't be worse doesn't mean it's true.

Remember how Franson and Fraser look worse when they get exposed to harder competition?

It applies to everyone.

Phaneuf takes the hardest competition on the team. He logs the most minutes. He insulates everyone else.

He's not a mid-level guy, and replacing him with a mid-level guy means you're getting lesser performance. A worse top-pairing means more goals against.

Who gives a (frank) if it's cheaper if it doesn't get the job done?

Those mid-level guys you want are going to cost you at least 5M a piece. Because of a rising cap, and not being able to front load contracts. Why not sign one mid-level guy to play WITH Dion?

It'll be a 12M pairing instead of a 10M pairing(assuming you could even sign those two guys), and it'll be much better.
- Feeling Glucky?

gluck.. dion isnt that good. he is the second guy who should be paired with a number one.

he, like bozak, is miscast in toronto

Guess Weber isnt a real leader
- jbold

the guy who tried to leave this past offseason?

yeah.. fine example of a leader you pulled out there.

gluck.. dion isnt that good. he is the second guy who should be paired with a number one.

he, like bozak, is miscast in toronto
- Dozzer

Work with what ya got, not like 1d men come on the block and for cheap same with 1C..

Lack of leadership.. Do you remember when the Bruins had 4 chances to eliminate the Flyers but couldn't close the deal. Are you going to say the Bruins have a lack of leadership?
- BetterCallSaul

Completely different.
The Leafs needed a leader to calm the waters...keep everyone in check.
Dion is simply not that person right now.

there are examples of guys around the league who take less than market value to stay with the team.

thats what a real leader does.
- Dozzer

DING DING DING DING DING DING!!

It's baffling how people can be against re-signing Dion.

He is the best defenceman on the team - by a mile. Nobody else is even close.

If he hit UFA at the end of the year, he would get $8 milly or more.

The Leafs lack talent on the blueline. They cannot afford to let him go.

/discussion
- Atomic Wedgie

End the discussion, nobody else point is valid any longer..

pay the ones who are worth it (kessel) and jettison the guys who arent (phaneuf)

destroy the culture of entitlement and eventually you build something proper.

the ranger and flyers have been trying to buy their way to a cup for years... rangers won it last when?
- Dozzer

The thing is, the guys who are "worth it" rarely hit free agency. When was the last time an elite level player become a UFA these days? More specifically, how often does it happen each year? Let Phaneuf walk and it could take years to find a player who is seen as an upgrade to him.

Also, to the Toronto Maple Leafs, Phaneuf is worth it. Like Kessel was worth it. It's good to be prudent and save some cash, but not at the expense of the best guys on your team.

Ive said it before, and Ill say it again, saving cap space is all well and good when and if you can find players worthy of spending those dollars on. Are there 4-6 guys primed to hit UFA status this July that we can get for cheaper who are as good or better than Phaneuf?

It's baffling how people can be against re-signing Dion.

He is the best defenceman on the team - by a mile. Nobody else is even close.

If he hit UFA at the end of the year, he would get $8 milly or more.

The Leafs lack talent on the blueline. They cannot afford to let him go.

/discussion
- Atomic Wedgie

true.. but what does that say?... really.

gluck.. dion isnt that good. he is the second guy who should be paired with a number one.

he, like bozak, is miscast in toronto
- Dozzer

You think Dion isnt that good, but give Ranger a free pass and has been playing solid while going up against 4th liners.

Make sense.

Jesus, I cant handle you. Thought i'd give it a try, but its back to ignoring you.