Scott Hartnell will never be the odd man out.
- Schenn2shine

OK then.

I don't think Read, Couts and Downie are set in stone, no more than the first line, but it doesn't make sense to change what is working because another player is "supposed" to be better. The proof is in the pudding as they say, and that first line has been clicking since Raffl got bumped up. Coincidence? Maybe. But Hartnell got plenty of chances to stick on the #1 grouping and he just didn't get it done.

One of the things I love about sports is the fact that most players have to earn what they are given by their performance, and their performance is usually easy to quantify, especially for the coach who sees them day in, day out in practice and in games. This idea that Hartnell, Schenn, or anybody else should be gifted a spot in the lineup better than what they've earned doesn't make any sense to me.
- wolfhounds

I absolutely think the Read, Downie and Couturier is more written in stone than the current top line. The trio of the third line are long proven NHL players. Management can whatever they wish with Raffl at anytime. Guys like Simmonds, Hartnell, Lecavalier and B.Schenn are in the NHL no matter what. It would be in the coaches best interest to make something work with these four NHL players. What stopped McGinn from being sent down after scoring three goals in two games?

Scott Hartnell will never be the odd man out.
- Schenn2shine

Yeah, with that NMC.

odd man in then.

lots of players don't play full seasons
- 2Real

But only play approximately 7 out of 10 games over their career?

Still want Paul Fenton
- ob18

as GM he'd be fine, I still would like to see Poulin as club President.

Assuming everyone's healthy, I'd go with the following lines:
Raffl-G-Jake
Hartnell-VL-Simmonds
Read-Couturier-Downie
Hall-Schenn-Akeson

I'd send VDV down and waive Rosehill to give Akeson a shot, if he can't cut it, Rinaldo goes back in and VDV or Rosehill (if hes still around comes back up)
B Schenn has been pretty inconsistent, maybe dropping to the 4th line will be a wakeup call and in Akeson he gets a skilled player to work with.

At some point I think the Flyers will move a forward in a deal to upgrade the D so Schenn will certainly get a chance to move up in the lineup. You can't mess with the 1st or 3rd lines right now and I don't see them moving Hartnell to the 4th especially if he continues to play the way he played last night.

In my opinion Michael Raffl is the better version of Andreas Nodl. Guys like Giroux, Lecavalier, Voracek, Simmonds, Schenn, Read, Downie, Couturier and even Hartnell have a safe and secure spot on this roster. These are nine players I just named. These are NHL guaranteed players. Raffl is one bad game from being being scratched down simply because the other guys are locks for this line up. Many might hate Hartnell 5 on 5 but he's still key to the number PP unit, which is another reason to keep him in the line up.

But only play approximately 7 out of 10 games over their career?
- 77rams

it's the risk you take when signing anyone and it's why you be very cautious about long term deals with NMC the player could get injured

In my opinion Michael Raffl is the better version of Andreas Nodl. Guys like Giroux, Lecavalier, Voracek, Simmonds, Schenn, Read, Downie, Couturier and even Hartnell have a safe and secure spot on this roster. These are nine players I just named. These are NHL guaranteed players. Raffl is one bad game from being being scratched down simply because the other guys are locks for this line up. Many might hate Hartnell 5 on 5 but he's still key to the number PP unit, which is another reason to keep him in the line up.
- Schenn2shine

no one should have a secure spot on the roster you earn your keep every night or you get punished

Anyone else watching the 2010 Winter Classic on the NHL network? Our bottom 6 and third pair were really weak and this is with noticing Michael Leighton in net.... which I still think was great that season.

no one should have a secure spot on the roster you earn your keep every night or you get punished
- 2Real

If this were true, Giroux would have been scratched six game into this season.

If this were true, Giroux would have been scratched six game into this season.
- Schenn2shine

not scoring and poor play are 2 different things

For Hartnell to get back to the 20 +goal player, creating havoc with the other team's goaltender and playing smart hockey (no offensive zone penalties for instance) would be, for the Flyers, a best case scenario.

He has consistently been a twenty goal guy.

He has the size to play in the top six.

Whether he can get back to that or not, is the question.
I don't think he is tradable with his new deal, so hopefully he can find his game somehow.

For me Raffl would be the ideal 4th liner/PK/ utility guy that all playoff caliber teams need. I would dearly love the Flyers to have a reliable, speedy, defensively sound 4th line in the future. I could see Raffl as part of that. For right now, I don't really want to see them mess with the chemistry on the G line. Let Hartnell work with Vinnie and B Schenn and see what happens.

not scoring and poor play are 2 different things
- 2Real

MJL drove me crazy when he first
started using this site but if there is one thing he tough me is you have to consider how much a player costs in how badly he plays. Fans pay to see certain players. Believe it or not Hartnell costs a lot and fans pay to see him. Michael Raffl, not so much.

Here's hoping all of you curmudgeons have a safe Christmas Eve and a terrific Christmas Day.

Enjoy.

Here's hoping all of you curmudgeons have a safe Christmas Eve and a terrific Christmas Day.

Enjoy.
- 77rams

same to you and all Flyers fans everywhere

I absolutely think the Read, Downie and Couturier is more written in stone than the current top line. The trio of the third line are long proven NHL players. Management can whatever they wish with Raffl at anytime. Guys like Simmonds, Hartnell, Lecavalier and B.Schenn are in the NHL no matter what. It would be in the coaches best interest to make something work with these four NHL players. What stopped McGinn from being sent down after scoring three goals in two games?
- Schenn2shine

A few things: I don't consider Downie an elite player by any stretch of the imagination, and if he's better than Raffl, it isn't by much.

I don't think anybody is debating that Raffl is an NHL rookie, or that he might fall off the top line, but there's absolutely no reason to pull him off now. He's earned his spot with results; Hartnell hasn't.

As for players getting paid a lot of money and therefore they should play, in my opinion you've got it exactly reversed. If a player is making a lot of money, that means we should expect more from them, not less. Right now Raffl is getting paid roughly 15% what Hartnell is earning, and he's taken Hartnell's spot on the top line. The coach has given the LW on the top line to an Austrian rookie over an NHL veteran getting paid 6 times as much, and this rookie never played a single game in North America before the start of this season. That's all on Hartnell.

Guys like Simmonds, Hartnell, Lecavalier and B.Schenn are in the NHL no matter what.

Lecavalier got bought out last season. Gagne isn't playing hockey this year. The Flyers likely couldn't trade Hartnell if they wanted to, and they might. Meszaros won the Barry Ashbee award 3 years ago, when he was about 25 years old, and now he can't crack the lineup without an injury, and the Flyers apparently can't trade him. LSchenn seems to have regressed this year from last. And the jury is still out on Simmonds and BSchenn.

Nothing is static; change happens whether you want it to or not.

MJL drove me crazy when he first
started using this site but if there is one thing he tough me is you have to consider how much a player costs in how badly he plays. Fans pay to see certain players. Believe it or not Hartnell costs a lot and fans pay to see him. Michael Raffl, not so much.
- Schenn2shine

People pay, first and foremost, to see the Flyers win. If they paid to see specific players more than to watch the team as a whole, none of Gagne, Richards, or Carter would have ever been traded.

MJL drove me crazy when he first
started using this site but if there is one thing he tough me is you have to consider how much a player costs in how badly he plays. Fans pay to see certain players. Believe it or not Hartnell costs a lot and fans pay to see him. Michael Raffl, not so much.
- Schenn2shine

tell you what, when i watch the games i'm watching raffl a lot more than hartnell these days.

merry christmas

MJL drove me crazy when he first
started using this site but if there is one thing he tough me is you have to consider how much a player costs in how badly he plays. Fans pay to see certain players. Believe it or not Hartnell costs a lot and fans pay to see him. Michael Raffl, not so much.
- Schenn2shine

That logic is totally flawed. A prime example is Ryan Howard. I don't care how much he makes, if he can't get his OBP against lefties over .280 he sits period. You don't kill your team to save money or because you signed a bad contract. Put Hartnell on the 4th line and PP if that's how he's playing. If he doesn't like it he can demand to be traded.

tell you what, when i watch the games i'm watching raffl a lot more than hartnell these days.
- -davies-

There's no chance they change the first line while it's clicking. Raffl is getting to loose pucks, crashing the net and he can keep up with his line mates.

I like Raffl, but not sold on him as a top line winger. Right now, he seems to be working better than anyone else has so far and since he's playing well, let's not change it. That being said, not sure if it's realistic that he's the answer on that line long term. I think if it ain't broke, don't fix it, unless a great trade is out there to be had, Raffl plays himself off the line or someone else pushes him off.

I'd love a legitimate, no argument top line winger playing with g and v, but I think the team needs to upgrade the blue line first. Over time they have enough scoring depth if things are clicking, but the defense still makes me nervous at times. Not speaking solely about defensive play, but more the transition game and offensive side of things.

Happy Holidays and Go Flyers!

merry christmas
- -davies-

Happy holidays

merry christmas
- -davies-

Merry Christmas!