A lot of contradicting yourself in this statement but whatever. My points stand.
- Schenn2shine

Your argument just seems so very backwards.

You're trying to argue practicality in the form of points streaks while also arguing emotionally for the return of Hartnell to the top line even though the top line is putting up many more points without him.

And salary has little to do with the spot the player earns on the team, just ask Meszaros.

Also, Hartnell is still getting plenty of PP time...and he still isn't producing.

You asked the question if I watched the first twenty games directing my attention to Scott Hartnell who struggled. I answered your question is a number of different fashions. I showed you Hartnell wasn't the only player to struggle and I used an example of when the top line has played well with Hartnell on it.
- Schenn2shine

That strech the top line still didn't play well. Go look at the box scores. They had a few goals here and there. Most were on the PP, which you cant count as top line. At that point that line was still struggling. Which goes back to my point, you dont mess with a hot line, when its the first time they were Hot all season.

They need to put Vinny on the top PP unit instead of Hartnell. He has the team's best shot.

They need to put Vinny on the top PP unit instead of Hartnell. He has the team's best shot.
- Feanor

To be honest I would rather 2 more balanced units.

Hartnell-Giroux-Schenn
Timonen-Voracek

Raffl-Lecavalier-Simmonds
Streit-Read

Your argument just seems so very backwards.

You're trying to argue practicality in the form of points streaks while also arguing emotionally for the return of Hartnell to the top line even though the top line is putting up many more points without him.

And salary has little to do with the spot the player earns on the team, just ask Meszaros.

Also, Hartnell is still getting plenty of PP time...and he still isn't producing.
- wolfhounds

The first line got off to a terrible start and Hartnell didn't get apoint in his first ten games then went out for two weeks with a rib injury. He has 11 pts in his last 19 games I believe. Something like that.

He's due for a break out. He needs to put those nagging injuries behind him.

The first line got off to a terrible start and Hartnell didn't get apoint in his first ten games then went out for two weeks with a rib injury. He has 11 pts in his last 19 games I believe. Something like that.

He's due for a break out. He needs to put those nagging injuries behind him.
- mayorofangrytown

Its still not a good reason to move him back to the top line while it is doing so well. You just dont mess with what works.

To be honest I would rather 2 more balanced units.

Hartnell-Giroux-Schenn
Timonen-Voracek

Raffl-Lecavalier-Simmonds
Streit-Read
- youarewrong

Schenn and Hartnell are inferior on the PP to Vinny and Simmonds. They shouldn't get more PP ice time.

That strech the top line still didn't play well. Go look at the box scores. They had a few goals here and there. Most were on the PP, which you cant count as top line. At that point that line was still struggling. Which goes back to my point, you dont mess with a hot line, when its the first time they were Hot all season.
- youarewrong

Giroux and Voracek's points are still coming from the Power Play. The 5 on 5 points in the most recent games, Raffl hasn't even touched the puck. Giroux and Voracek are simply finding their games. You can thank Raffl for that or you can egg knowledge that the two players have simply found their games and it's a couincidence that Raffl happens to be on the line.

Question. Who was in the crease causing a ruckus when Giroux scored what might be the goal of the year this season?

Your argument just seems so very backwards.

You're trying to argue practicality in the form of points streaks while also arguing emotionally for the return of Hartnell to the top line even though the top line is putting up many more points without him.

And salary has little to do with the spot the player earns on the team, just ask Meszaros.

Also, Hartnell is still getting plenty of PP time...and he still isn't producing.
- wolfhounds

Love or hate the idea, I picture Michael Raffl playing the same role players like Rj Umburger and Marty Murray took on while they played here. A player who can fill in on all four likes when called upon.

The argument for many is to not fix what isn't broken. Raffl is playing well on the top line, so leave the top line alone. I'm okay with that but I would rather work Hartnell back into the top line, all the while trying to work Lecavalier back into the second line, this way Downie is ready to pick up where he left off on our most consistent line with Read and Couturier.

The Power Play is also clicking but I actually want to get Hartnell off the top unit and work Lecavalier in. So it's not like a I favour Hartnell or am asking Raffl to be scratched. I just want to find a balance that sees all four lines rolling and clicking. It's great the top line is going but I would prefer everyone was going the same way as we were in November.

I'm a little surprised nobody is harder on Brayden Schenn who is struggling at center. He hasn't produced much since Lecavalier's most recent injury.

Schenn and Hartnell are inferior on the PP to Vinny and Simmonds. They shouldn't get more PP ice time.
- Feanor

IMO you need someone like Vinny on the 2nd unit to make it effective.

To be honest I would rather 2 more balanced units.

Hartnell-Giroux-Schenn
Timonen-Voracek

Raffl-Lecavalier-Simmonds
Streit-Read
- youarewrong

I would give Downie and Couturier PP time before Raffl.

When downie is back, since raffl is playing so well. Do you think the flyers could roll four lines?
Something like

Raffl Giroux voracek
Harts lecav rinaldo
Downie couts read
Schenn hall Simmonds

I think a four line presence like that would be completely dominating.

Its still not a good reason to move him back to the top line while it is doing so well. You just dont mess with what works.
- youarewrong

Yeah, I'm not agreeing with that. Just addressing Hartnell's lack of production. I don't need him and Simmonds on a line either. I really like both of them but on a line together. You better have a dynamic puck possession center to make that work.

When downie is back, since raffl is playing so well. Do you think the flyers could roll four lines?
Something like

Raffl Giroux voracek
Harts lecav rinaldo
Downie couts read
Schenn hall Simmonds

I think a four line presence like that would be completely dominating.
- FlyersSteve118

That second line is a disaster in the making. move Rinaldo down to 4 and everyone up one.

The first line got off to a terrible start and Hartnell didn't get apoint in his first ten games then went out for two weeks with a rib injury. He has 11 pts in his last 19 games I believe. Something like that.

He's due for a break out. He needs to put those nagging injuries behind him.
- mayorofangrytown

Agreed. The team, the first line, G, V and many others got off to horrible starts. But now we're 3rd in the Metro, back over .500, and playing, on the whole, better hockey. Why mess with what's working?

Hartnell is getting plenty of ice time, 5v5 and on the PP, and hopefully he puts it together and starts throwing up some points. Too many people producing and fighting for minutes would be a great problem for the Flyers.

Yeah, I'm not agreeing with that. Just addressing Hartnell's lack of production. I don't need him and Simmonds on a line either. I really like both of them but on a line together. You better have a dynamic puck possession center to make that work.
- mayorofangrytown

Its pretty evident that more lineup changes will be made when Steve Downie returns to the lineup. In fact I expect it to become a chain reaction. Downie back with Read and Couturier, Lecavalier back centering the second unit, which only means something happens within the top six to get Lecavalier back into that mix.

When downie is back, since raffl is playing so well. Do you think the flyers could roll four lines?
Something like

Raffl Giroux voracek
Harts lecav rinaldo
Downie couts read
Schenn hall Simmonds

I think a four line presence like that would be completely dominating.
- FlyersSteve118

If your going to have a opening on that second line u might as well call up akeson instead of rinaldo

I would give Downie and Couturier PP time before Raffl.
- Schenn2shine

OK.

Here's my pre-Christmas egg nog, out-of-the-box move for the Flyers to mull over during the break... the Schenn bros to Minny for Heatley and Dumba.

Here's my thinking: The Flyers could use a scoring winger on the PP, a young puck moving d-man, and some cap space.

Heatley fills an immediate need for a PP presence and a big body for the second line alongside Vinny (perhaps). If, by some stroke of luck, they click and Dany regains even half of what he was able to bring to the table, it settles the first two lines nicely. If Dany continues to suck, then we let him walk and give Hextall some much needed cap space next year. If he steps up, then offer a one year affordable make-good contract next year and still gain some cap room.

Dumba gives us a young d-man with lots of potential, a good skater with a bit of a nasty streak.

With Laughton coming up next year, BSchenn is superfluous. And we'll be swapping an young, aggressive, slow, offensively challenged d-man in LSchenn for an even younger, aggressive, faster, offensively more gifted d-man in Dumba.

Adding the rum to the egg nog now.

Love or hate the idea, I picture Michael Raffl playing the same role players like Rj Umburger and Marty Murray took on while they played here. A player who can fill in on all four likes when called upon.

The argument for many is to not fix what isn't broken. Raffl is playing well on the top line, so leave the top line alone. I'm okay with that but I would rather work Hartnell back into the top line, all the while trying to work Lecavalier back into the second line, this way Downie is ready to pick up where he left off on our most consistent line with Read and Couturier.

The Power Play is also clicking but I actually want to get Hartnell off the top unit and work Lecavalier in. So it's not like a I favour Hartnell or am asking Raffl to be scratched. I just want to find a balance that sees all four lines rolling and clicking. It's great the top line is going but I would prefer everyone was going the same way as we were in November.

I'm a little surprised nobody is harder on Brayden Schenn who is struggling at center. He hasn't produced much since Lecavalier's most recent injury.
- Schenn2shine

I agree, I see Raffl - right now at least - as a solid role player who could put up 25-30 points a season while being defensively sound and helping to kill penalties. He's a valuable, and affordable, asset.

I guess we see the same problem - imbalance, lines missing that chance/scoring dynamic - but have different ideas on fixing it. The problem, as I believe you are indicating, isn't with Raffl, but rather where does Hartnell fit in this lineup? I think we can all agree it isn't with Simmonds.

I liked the chemistry between Read and VL last night, the give-and-go they had a couple times, and they set each other up for some nice scoring chances.

Yeah, BSchenn seems to be in some sort of Limbo, unable to put everything together, but he's still just a kid, so I'm not terribly critical, and I don't think he's on a balanced line. He was producing earlier in the season when he was with VL, so I'd think about putting them back together.

Here are Bill's lines from yesterday:

12 Michael Raffl - 28 Claude Giroux - 92 Jakub Voracek
19 Scott Hartnell - 10 Brayden Schenn - 17 Wayne Simmonds
24 Matt Read - 14 Sean Couturier - 40 Vincent Lecavalier

Something like this could be worth trying:

12 Michael Raffl - 28 Claude Giroux - 92 Jakub Voracek
24 Matt Read - 10 Brayden Schenn - 40 Vincent Lecavalier
19 Scott Hartnell - 14 Sean Couturier - 17 Wayne Simmonds

Of course that setup would likely sacrifice a bit of 'shutdown' from the 3rd line. And when Downie comes back he's going to have to fit in there somewhere.

I agree, I see Raffl - right now at least - as a solid role player who could put up 25-30 points a season while being defensively sound and helping to kill penalties. He's a valuable, and affordable, asset.

I guess we see the same problem - imbalance, lines missing that chance/scoring dynamic - but have different ideas on fixing it. The problem, as I believe you are indicating, isn't with Raffl, but rather where does Hartnell fit in this lineup? I think we can all agree it isn't with Simmonds.

I liked the chemistry between Read and VL last night, the give-and-go they had a couple times, and they set each other up for some nice scoring chances.

Yeah, BSchenn seems to be in some sort of Limbo, unable to put everything together, but he's still just a kid, so I'm not terribly critical, and I don't think he's on a balanced line. He was producing earlier in the season when he was with VL, so I'd think about putting them back together.

Here are Bill's lines from yesterday:



Something like this could be worth trying:

12 Michael Raffl - 28 Claude Giroux - 92 Jakub Voracek
24 Matt Read - 10 Brayden Schenn - 40 Vincent Lecavalier
19 Scott Hartnell - 14 Sean Couturier - 17 Wayne Simmonds

Of course that setup would likely sacrifice a bit of 'shutdown' from the 3rd line. And when Downie comes back he's going to have to fit in there somewhere.
- wolfhounds

How about if we move schenn down and hartnell or simmonds up. Schenn can't hit a bull in the ass with a handful of gravel right now.

I agree, I see Raffl - right now at least - as a solid role player who could put up 25-30 points a season while being defensively sound and helping to kill penalties. He's a valuable, and affordable, asset.

I guess we see the same problem - imbalance, lines missing that chance/scoring dynamic - but have different ideas on fixing it. The problem, as I believe you are indicating, isn't with Raffl, but rather where does Hartnell fit in this lineup? I think we can all agree it isn't with Simmonds.

I liked the chemistry between Read and VL last night, the give-and-go they had a couple times, and they set each other up for some nice scoring chances.

Yeah, BSchenn seems to be in some sort of Limbo, unable to put everything together, but he's still just a kid, so I'm not terribly critical, and I don't think he's on a balanced line. He was producing earlier in the season when he was with VL, so I'd think about putting them back together.

Here are Bill's lines from yesterday:



Something like this could be worth trying:

12 Michael Raffl - 28 Claude Giroux - 92 Jakub Voracek
24 Matt Read - 10 Brayden Schenn - 40 Vincent Lecavalier
19 Scott Hartnell - 14 Sean Couturier - 17 Wayne Simmonds

Of course that setup would likely sacrifice a bit of 'shutdown' from the 3rd line. And when Downie comes back he's going to have to fit in there somewhere.
- wolfhounds

I'm simply not interested in breaking up the Downie, Couturier and Read line. In my opinion this is short term thinking. Downie will only be out a week. One of the issues Brayden Schenn is having is taking on too much responsibility by playing center.

How about if we move schenn down and hartnell or simmonds up. Schenn can't hit a bull in the ass with a handful of gravel right now.
- mayorofangrytown

Yup, I'd try that.

I'm simply not interested in breaking up the Downie, Couturier and Read line. In my opinion this is short term thinking. Downie will only be out a week. One of the issues Brayden Schenn is having is taking on too much responsibility by playing center.
- Schenn2shine

Your PoV regarding Downie, Couts and Read is what many of us feel regarding Raffl on the first line.

So we're back to where, when Downie returns, does Hartnell fit in this lineup?

I'm simply not interested in breaking up the Downie, Couturier and Read line. In my opinion this is short term thinking. Downie will only be out a week. One of the issues Brayden Schenn is having is taking on too much responsibility by playing center.
- Schenn2shine

i see your reasoning to "not mess with something that works", but it's far more important to get the most out of ALL the young and, unfortunately, streaky talent the flyers have in their top 6. that said i do think that Downie line is rebuilt when he returns.

i think Raffle stays in the lineup once Downie is back (fingers crossed all other forwards are healthy) and skates both on the fourth line and is cycled in on the top line/PK/etc pending Hartnell's play back up on the top line. it's imperative for this team that Hartnell gets a hot hand, not so much Raffle...despite his pleasantly surprising play on the top line.

Love or hate the idea, I picture Michael Raffl playing the same role players like Rj Umburger and Marty Murray took on while they played here. A player who can fill in on all four likes when called upon.

The argument for many is to not fix what isn't broken. Raffl is playing well on the top line, so leave the top line alone. I'm okay with that but I would rather work Hartnell back into the top line, all the while trying to work Lecavalier back into the second line, this way Downie is ready to pick up where he left off on our most consistent line with Read and Couturier.

The Power Play is also clicking but I actually want to get Hartnell off the top unit and work Lecavalier in. So it's not like a I favour Hartnell or am asking Raffl to be scratched. I just want to find a balance that sees all four lines rolling and clicking. It's great the top line is going but I would prefer everyone was going the same way as we were in November.

I'm a little surprised nobody is harder on Brayden Schenn who is struggling at center. He hasn't produced much since Lecavalier's most recent injury.
- Schenn2shine

hartnell blows it's time to move on sucked last season and sucks this season