OK well that is ALOT more then he just said...

So you feel that is the least we can get with it still being a win?

XxNYIxX
- XxNYIxX

I don't want a pick back for Vanek if we move him, I want a top four defenseman, even if it's one without any offensive ability.

Good question...2 more now since I guess that's when we hit Barclay. This isn't some new concept. I've been saying this here for 3 years now and a couple of years prior to that at Yahoo.

I don't think Wang has any interest in doing anything but staying the course until he can turn a profit. It's what businessmen do.
- keaner17

I think it's simply due to them being inept and not so great at their jobs. I mean this when referring to Snow in that he can't sell this team to a player, coach, anyone. He can't make a trade and do what it takes to back it up. That's not going to change when they move to Brooklyn. Players, coaches, whomever will be more apt to laugh at him even more than before after this joke of a season and I'm not only referring to their record.

IMO, and possibly only mine, the trade is a win if Vanek resigns. If he doesn't and we move him at the deadline then it's a loss. Regardless, I do not miss Moulson.
- Isles_since_6

i agree if he signs... then Snows ultimate goal is achieved.

But if we trade him at the deadline for a 1st & second.. I would also consider that a win.

XxNYIxX

I don't want a pick back for Vanek if we move him, I want a top four defenseman, even if it's one without any offensive ability.
- Isles_since_6

I don't want a pick back for Vanek if we move him, I want a top four defenseman, even if it's one without any offensive ability.
- Isles_since_6

Do you think someone would offer that for a rental?

XxNYIxX

i agree if he signs... then Snows ultimate goal is achieved.

But if we trade him at the deadline for a 1st & second.. I would also consider that a win.

XxNYIxX
- XxNYIxX

Than we gave away a very tradeable asset in Moulson. Also that first might as well be a second from where it's going to be(probably).

absolutely agree. That line isn't pinned in our own zone for minute long shifts, and Vanek can actually carry the puck into the zone and doesn't just sit in the crease and wait for JT and KO to go get it.
- Isles_since_6

DING DING DING DING
....and there is the difference between Vanek and Moulson. I can't believe the anti-Vanek people don't see that.

DING DING DING DING
....and there is the difference between Vanek and Moulson. I can't believe the anti-Vanek people don't see that.
- Charlie21

I'm beginning to think they don't want to see it? their hearts are broken too.

Than we gave away a very tradeable asset in Moulson. Also that first might as well be a second from where it's going to be(probably).
- Cptmjl

Agree, But getting back a first and second even if they are later picks is very good.

XxNYIxX

OK well that is ALOT more then he just said...

So you feel that is the least we can get with it still being a win?

XxNYIxX
- XxNYIxX

No..that's what I want..

I value it like this...
first off
Vanek v Moulson.. + for getting a full season from Vanek as opposed to MM.
Now Moulson's trade value, 1st pick and 2nd pick v. Vanek trade return or resigning.

From that standpoint, we need at least a 1st and 2nd back if he doesn't resign.
I think Moulson would have probably brought a 2nd rd pick at the deadline. So ultimately I want to recoup the value of a 1st and two 2nds. In that case it's a win because we got Vanek for a year and kept close to the same in assets.

DING DING DING DING
....and there is the difference between Vanek and Moulson. I can't believe the anti-Vanek people don't see that.
- Charlie21

Im not Anti-Vanek, in fact i never liked MM.... I dont like the trade we gave up too much, and it was a move that didn't even need to be made, not when bigger problems were all over this team.

XxNYIXX

Do you think someone would offer that for a rental?

XxNYIxX
- XxNYIxX

it's possible a team like st louis may look at moving depth on defense for a player like Vanek when they look like a serious cup contender this year.

For us to get picks back doesn't do it at this stage of the game. We have so many prospects on defense that adding more picks to get more prospects who will take another 2-3 years. We need some help now.

whether it's entirely realistic or not, I cannot claim to know as I don't know who would be looking at Vanek and who they'd be willing to part with.

this is why it encourages me that the Barclays people are paying the Isles to play there - if the team puts out a lineup and record similar to this there will be people asking questions and putting feet to fire. Until then...we're stuck with this.
- Isles_since_6

Don't mean to burst everyone's bubble but I believe you're stuck with this after we get to Barclays. I have no idea why anyone thinks otherwise? Wang and Snow are facking losers. Simplified I know but I can't explain why I'm sure I don't have too. That's not going to suddenly change when we get to Brooklyn. No one will won't to play for this team even more so after this debacle of a season. Agents will continue to laugh at Snow. Brooklyn will not change this. As long as Snow and company are in control of this team we will be doing the same shat year after year.

Agree, But getting back a first and second even if they are later picks is very good.

XxNYIxX
- XxNYIxX

It's better than nothing.

No..that's what I want..

I value it like this...
first off
Vanek v Moulson.. + for getting a full season from Vanek as opposed to MM.
Now Moulson's trade value, 1st pick and 2nd pick v. Vanek trade return or resigning.

From that standpoint, we need at least a 1st and 2nd back if he doesn't resign.
I think Moulson would have probably brought a 2nd rd pick at the deadline. So ultimately I want to recoup the value of a 1st and two 2nds. In that case it's a win because we got Vanek for a year and kept close to the same in assets.
- keaner17

IDK about that? Three time thirty goal scorer? I think we could've gotten more than a 2nd round pick.

IDK about that? Three time thirty goal scorer? I think we could've gotten more than a 2nd round pick.
- Cptmjl

I dunno...depends on the market and just how much other GM's buy into him being a REAL 30 goal scorer. I also wonder just whether or not MM was offered to other GM's prior to this trade. We know we couldn't get a 1st for PA at the time.

Sure he's a 3 time 30 goal guy, but honestly, as much as we've bashed the guy..would you trade a 1st round pick to rent him for the playoffs?

I dunno...depends on the market and just how much other GM's buy into him being a REAL 30 goal scorer. I also wonder just whether or not MM was offered to other GM's prior to this trade. We know we couldn't get a 1st for PA at the time.

Sure he's a 3 time 30 goal guy, but honestly, as much as we've bashed the guy..would you trade a 1st round pick to rent him for the playoffs?
- keaner17

We all know the answer to that but judging by most reactions to the trade Moulson's value is much higher than the figure I have

We all know the answer to that but judging by most reactions to the trade Moulson's value is much higher than the figure I have
- Cptmjl

We'll know soon enough what his real value is...

Don't mean to burst everyone's bubble but I believe you're stuck with this after we get to Barclays. I have no idea why anyone thinks otherwise? Wang and Snow are facking losers. Simplified I know but I can't explain why I'm sure I don't have too. That's not going to suddenly change when we get to Brooklyn. No one will won't to play for this team even more so after this debacle of a season. Agents will continue to laugh at Snow. Brooklyn will not change this. As long as Snow and company are in control of this team we will be doing the same shat year after year.
- Cptmjl

I agree. I don't see anything pointing to a loosening of the purse strings when we arrive in Brooklyn. It sounds nice but I don't expect it from these clowns. I'm starting to get worried about what these cheap facks and their country club culture is doing to JT. He looks beyond frustrated.

Im not Anti-Vanek, in fact i never liked MM.... I dont like the trade we gave up too much, and it was a move that didn't even need to be made, not when bigger problems were all over this team.

XxNYIXX
- XxNYIxX

Couldn't agree more that they didn't address a need per se, but if I were to guess, Snow looked at it as a way to get a high end talent here, and hope that he falls in love with the area and team and stays. I think he's just about given up all hope of signing an FA here in the off-season, so this was his way of hoping it would all work out. That still doesn't take a way from the fact that Vanek is a better hockey player than Moulson which I believe was the original discussion. You'd have to think that Moulson wasn't sticking around after this year anyway. At least I hope that's the case if he's gonna be fetching a 6 mill plus salary. He's only worth about 2/3's of that on a good day.

YES

and ill go a step further and say that

TV > MM

XxNYIxX
- XxNYIxX

i think you got your >, < backwards...unless you think vanek is better...

So im asking in your eyes... what are those rights worth?

What do you feel is the absolute least Snow can get for Vanek at the deadline and be considered a win?

XxNYIxX
- XxNYIxX

get back a 1st...anything more than that is gravy

i think you got your >, < backwards...unless you think vanek is better...
- LetsGoIsles

He means MM and JT are better together thank Vanek and JT, however Vanek is the better player. Hes talking about the chemistry of it. I would prefer to have them both on the team next year and its very possible if they are willing to spend some money.

I agree. I don't see anything pointing to a loosening of the purse strings when we arrive in Brooklyn. It sounds nice but I don't expect it from these clowns. I'm starting to get worried about what these cheap facks and their country club culture is doing to JT. He looks beyond frustrated.
- David_Volek

I think the big question is even if the purse strings are loosened who the fack is going to want to sign on with these guys? Think about that because I have a hard time thinking anyone.

get back a 1st...anything more than that is gravy
- LetsGoIsles

Vanek should be worth more than a 1st at the deadline. Moulson will bring back a first.