just so we're clear - THE PROBLEMS WITH THIS TEAM ARE THE DEFENSE, COACHING AND SECONDARY SCORING.

NOT VANEK

thank you.
- Isles_since_6

didn't say it fixes the problems on defense , clearly that is our biggest issue...I was clearly speaking to those who complain about Vanek..to get more out of him they need to move him.... if I tell my kid to work harder on his math did I say it will help his english grades.....pay attention.....

would you not like Vanek to start scoring more on a different line while we search for better D...me thinks so

I think if he could go back 6 months with a do over he would. Easy to say in hindsightb
- Isles316

It seems to me we are, and have been, in a 'let the chips fall as they may' mode. They set up the team, hope for the best and then wait for next season. It's why I say it's all about 2015. We'll keep tweaking things, but everything we do ultimately is about not screwing us up long term. Sing stop gaps, extend the core, replace stop gaps with other stop gaps until the prospects can assume their role.

It seems to me we are, and have been, in a 'let the chips fall as they may' mode. They set up the team, hope for the best and then wait for next season. It's why I say it's all about 2015. We'll keep tweaking things, but everything we do ultimately is about not screwing us up long term. Sing stop gaps, extend the core, replace stop gaps with other stop gaps until the prospects can assume their role.
- keaner17

Lets hope they sound better than they look

It seems to me we are, and have been, in a 'let the chips fall as they may' mode. They set up the team, hope for the best and then wait for next season. It's why I say it's all about 2015. We'll keep tweaking things, but everything we do ultimately is about not screwing us up long term. Sing stop gaps, extend the core, replace stop gaps with other stop gaps until the prospects can assume their role.
- keaner17

Man, I hope you're right and this isn't how they think they'll win.

[quote=keaner17]Funny though how everyone had good chemistry with JT..maybe, just maybe it's all about JT.

but not Vanek...so back to my point as you later said....

didn't say it fixes the problems on defense , clearly that is our biggest issue...I was clearly speaking to those who complain about Vanek..to get more out of him they need to move him.... if I tell my kid to work harder on his math did I say it will help his english grades.....pay attention.....

would you not like Vanek to start scoring more on a different line while we search for better D...me thinks so
- Nolanders

Agree

XxNYIxX

Lets all start rooting for us to get the #1 pick & these pr!cks will win the cup to spite the fan base!

XxNYIxX

didn't say it fixes the problems on defense , clearly that is our biggest issue...I was clearly speaking to those who complain about Vanek..to get more out of him they need to move him.... if I tell my kid to work harder on his math did I say it will help his english grades.....pay attention.....

would you not like Vanek to start scoring more on a different line while we search for better D...me thinks so
- Nolanders

would vanek score more on a different line? We have a stone cold set of forwards after the top line*edit*, do we want to risk breaking the one thing we have working right now by breaking up the top line? Is demoting vanek to play with Nielson and Bailey going to make him think it's worth resigning?

Frankly, do we even have a hope in hell of making the playoffs? I don't think so. I'd like to see us fire the coach and look to add a defenseman. Let's at least get a system in place and spend the rest of the year learning to play it, rather than spinning our wheels and making a change in the summer.

I think Vanek is a better player.. and ultimately i dont think we will see the best of him until hes NOT with JT, MM on the other hand worked very well with JT and the way he plays. Since the point of the trade was to make the first line better... I believe they failed.. they downgraded.

XxNYIxX
- XxNYIxX

so youre saying

JT + MM > JT + TV??

I do ... one that line and on the PP with JT.. Moulson was and is a better fit. I said it when they made the trade and after 19 games all the stats point to me and XX and everyone on the other side of this convo being correct. When are you going to see it and say you just might have been incorrect?
- niteislander

when i feel like im incorrect.

Maloney?
- mighty13duck

Exactly

I dont recall one single analyst that thought it was a good trade when it was made. Not one.


XxNYIxX
- XxNYIxX

There were a few people on the NHL network that liked it.

Lack of D & a real coach are killing this team


XxNYIxX
- XxNYIxX

[quote=keaner17]Funny though how everyone had good chemistry with JT..maybe, just maybe it's all about JT.

but not Vanek...so back to my point as you later said....
- Nolanders

JT has maintained virtually the same ppg since Vanek has joined. The line is the second highest scoring line in the NHL over the last dozen games....I'm just going to cut and paste this.

It seems to me we are, and have been, in a 'let the chips fall as they may' mode. They set up the team, hope for the best and then wait for next season. It's why I say it's all about 2015. We'll keep tweaking things, but everything we do ultimately is about not screwing us up long term. Sing stop gaps, extend the core, replace stop gaps with other stop gaps until the prospects can assume their role.
- keaner17

this is what annoys me the most. We seem unable to do anything to fix the team during the year. We're standing on the street corner watching the house burn down and no one is calling the fire department.

Got this from one of his scouting reports

"If there are drawbacks to Skinner’s game, they could be in his relative lack of size (5-foot-10, 187 pounds) and skating ability – the latter of which comes as something of a surprise given his success as a nationally-known figure skater in his youth."
- Vukota

Guess that's why he took up hockey?

I do believe Vanek is the better player but hes also not so much better that we needed to ad a first and a second, Snow lost the trade big time, but can redeem himself if he resigns Vanek and Moulson
- mighty13duck

1000%....WRONG

snow doesnt "lose" the trade until a there is a final result with vanek.
if vanek resigns with isles = win
if isles trade him at deadline = win
if vanek walks year end = lose

plain and simple.

to evaluate the trade NOW whether it was a "win" or "loss" (whatever that means) is ridiculous.

im not saying you cant evaluate whether the assets could have be used better or not- im saying evaluating the trade that actually happened cannot be complete until vanek signs his next contract

I have a feeling we are going to steal that pick from Buff this year. This team is due for another 12 game losing streak.
- mighty13duck

another? We're on our way

Atleast Milbury seemed like he wanted to win.
- mighty13duck

You kind of have a point there.

this is what annoys me the most. We seem unable to do anything to fix the team during the year. We're standing on the street corner watching the house burn down and no one is calling the fire department.
- Isles_since_6

Yep...
this is where no one holding the ownership and mgmt accountable allows them to focus on something three years from now without being called out on a sub par attempt to ice a decent product today.

I understand that the idea is to build something that will last and the best way to do so is to develop from within, but this is why we don't have that 'winning' culture everyone talks about. Because right now, losing is accepted. They don't have to trade Strome for a top pairing dman right now, just get us a top four guy to solidify the d a bit more and fire the damn coach. At the very least, fire the damn coach to see if we can adjust the system to something that works with this present group.

oooooh the ole respected analyst like who.. mike Milbury? Jeremy Roenick? .. maybe Kevin Weekes who has uttered the lovely analysis in the past that our letting Radek Martinek go and JT not having a legit wing man is why the Islanders are struggling.

Bottom line... the argument comes from one point. Some of us consider the ability to Score an ELITE skill in this league. It's a very tough league. It has very good goalies (not us) and very good defensemen (not us again)... and if a player can score 30+ goals a year it is very valueable skill. You can call them "garbage goals"
or "tip ins" or "deflections".. I don't give a poop. It's a very tough league to score goals and Moulson is a goal scorer!! a Sniper!! whatever you want to call it he finds a way to get in front of the net and despite getting cross checked in the back, and slashed in the back of the knees.. (hi Vanek).. stays there and scores the friggin goals.
- niteislander

also your argument doesnt separate moulson from vanek considering they are both 30 goal scorers

so youre saying

JT + MM > JT + TV??
- LetsGoIsles

YES

and ill go a step further and say that

TV > MM

XxNYIxX

There were a few people on the NHL network that liked it.
- Cptmjl

were they associated with the Buffalo Sabres?

XxNYIxX

It seems to me we are, and have been, in a 'let the chips fall as they may' mode. They set up the team, hope for the best and then wait for next season. It's why I say it's all about 2015. We'll keep tweaking things, but everything we do ultimately is about not screwing us up long term. Sing stop gaps, extend the core, replace stop gaps with other stop gaps until the prospects can assume their role.
- keaner17

Yeah, signing players that can contribute long term to the club and were available a couple yrs ago and now are not. Great plan. If that's their actual plan(which I don't believe btw)it's beyond flawed. So now, in 2015, with all of these prospects playing up to their ceilings(which they won't be after getting tutored by Reasoner and Bouchrad)they are going to throw the missing pieces into the team? Come on man.

also your argument doesnt separate moulson from vanek considering they are both 30 goal scorers
- LetsGoIsles

I also don't consider a door step guy a sniper. Bossy was a sniper. Stamkos, sniper. Ovechkin sniper. If you're going to call someone a sniper, they have to be able to score from beyond 6 feet out.
This isn't to say Moulson isn't effective...we NEED that type of talent here. I just don't want that on our top line if it's all he can do.

I did like the change I saw on the PP the other night when we had both Nelson and Vanek near the net. That's plenty of size and it worked. We scored.