It will be a bad 'result' for the trade. I still would maintain the trade itself wasn't bad. I see that as two different things.

I agree it likely wouldn't have been my focal point for a need at the time, but I certainly have no regret that they did it. They took a chance, which is what 3/4 of this board were complaining that our GM wouldn't do.

If we get a 1st back, I'd say we did okay because in the end we traded for nearly a full seasons service from Vanek at the expense of Moulson and a 2nd. It's a risk worth taking. It's still to early to draw a conclusion.
- keaner17

I see it as half assing it after making a big trade. You don't make that trade unless you give your team a legit shot to compete after doing it. There seems to be very little thought put into some things with Snow. This is one of those things. How did myself and every other single person know this team couldn't compete with just the addition of Vanek and Snow didn't? Come on.

Spano had a tweet after the last game that essentially said the same thing..
- niteislander

That's awesome!

I'm aware of downeaster and his rants.
- Cptmjl

For a while a few years back he and I were arch enemies and he would pull out the CBA to argue his points... and he informed us he had a hard copy of it on his computer.

I call it as I see it you're right there but that's exactly what I'm doing. I'm not saying he's the next Steve Yzerman but Vanek is much better than Moulson in all things I mentioned. It's not saying much due to Moulson being that bad in those areas but I'll stand by it. That line is a better line with Thomas Vanek on it. I know some disagree and I have no problem with it but Moulson is such an extreme one trick pony that I haven't wanted him on this team for two seasons now. I agree with Keaner when he says it's an easy thing to finger point at now but we are losing games due to defense not Thomas Vanek coughing up the puck at the blue line or in the neutral zone.
- Cptmjl

Moulson and Vanek's stats the last 4 years are identical. fyi.

I see it as half assing it after making a big trade. You don't make that trade unless you give your team a legit shot to compete after doing it. There seems to be very little thought put into some things with Snow. This is one of those things. How did myself and every other single person know this team couldn't compete with just the addition of Vanek and Snow didn't? Come on.
- Cptmjl

Couldn't agree more. I was psyched and completely anticipated another move that never came. Now anyone that I ever told to stop crying about Moulson and get psyched for Vanek and what's to come is giving me nonstop crap. I think at one point these Moulson apologists were giving me more garbage comments than Rags fans.

Does anyone else feel like Vanek isn't playing to 100% potential because of the mess the team is in? Just looking for opinions...I didn't see him too much in Buffalo outside of the games against the Isles and was wondering. At times I see a fire come out in him, but not the majority of the time.

I see it as half assing it after making a big trade. You don't make that trade unless you give your team a legit shot to compete after doing it. There seems to be very little thought put into some things with Snow. This is one of those things. How did myself and every other single person know this team couldn't compete with just the addition of Vanek and Snow didn't? Come on.
- Cptmjl

I don't believe anyone expected this type of epic collapse at the time of that trade. I also don't think anyone felt this trade was going to carry us to the cup.

I'd say most are misinterpreting the intention of this trade. This trade wasn't made to fix something that was broken for this year. It was meant to address finding an elite winger LONG TERM for JT. This was about 2014 and beyond and if it is deemed a fail, THAT is why it will be. This trade was/is and will be totally evaluated on whether Vanek walks or not, which most now consider a foregone conclusion. In that case, it will be a fail. But when Garth made his ".500 is not acceptable comment" I said that day, this trade had nothing to do with that record. That was clear when Snow admitted he had been working on this trade pre draft.
So, no. I did not expect more trades when things hit the fan. We already dealt a 1st and 2nd rounder for this one, so the same people that gripe about losing those picks are going to complain we didn't deal more picks as a bandaid to turn a bottom dweller into a bubble hopeful?

Couldn't agree more. I was psyched and completely anticipated another move that never came. Now anyone that I ever told to stop crying about Moulson and get psyched for Vanek and what's to come is giving me nonstop crap. I think at one point these Moulson apologists were giving me more garbage comments than Rags fans.

Does anyone else feel like Vanek isn't playing to 100% potential because of the mess the team is in? Just looking for opinions...I didn't see him too much in Buffalo outside of the games against the Isles and was wondering. At times I see a fire come out in him, but not the majority of the time.
- WolfmanIsles

I think Vanek is a fish out of water with this team right now. This is not a two-way hockey team right now which means players who aren't strong backcheckers like Vanek or Moulson become more glaring in their defensive shortcomings. I also think Vanek is learning (this is my whining portion) that the Isles get a lot less respect from officials than most other teams. He's constantly getting held, dragged down etc and you can clearly see his frustration is starting to get the better of him. This is a rough stretch for the team and Vanek especially. Eventually things may turn around and he'll score in bunches but the damage is likely done.

When Moulson was moved to any other line besides the first he doesnt produce. We've seen this how many times? In fact he doesnt produce for the most part unless hes on the pp. Its not worth resigning him imo.
- Cptmjl

Moulson might produce with Strome. I have been really impressed with Strome. I think he will become a #2 center for the Islanders...

Moulson and Vanek's stats the last 4 years are identical. fyi.
- niteislander

I'm aware but like i said he is a better overall player than Moulson. I think even most of Moulson's biggest fans could acknowledge that?

Moulson and Vanek's stats the last 4 years are identical. fyi.
- niteislander

His goal production is on par with Pavel Datsyuk too...doesn't mean they're on the same level though.

I don't believe anyone expected this type of epic collapse at the time of that trade. I also don't think anyone felt this trade was going to carry us to the cup.

I'd say most are misinterpreting the intention of this trade. This trade wasn't made to fix something that was broken for this year. It was meant to address finding an elite winger LONG TERM for JT. This was about 2014 and beyond and if it is deemed a fail, THAT is why it will be. This trade was/is and will be totally evaluated on whether Vanek walks or not, which most now consider a foregone conclusion. In that case, it will be a fail. But when Garth made his ".500 is not acceptable comment" I said that day, this trade had nothing to do with that record. That was clear when Snow admitted he had been working on this trade pre draft.
So, no. I did not expect more trades when things hit the fan. We already dealt a 1st and 2nd rounder for this one, so the same people that gripe about losing those picks are going to complain we didn't deal more picks as a bandaid to turn a bottom dweller into a bubble hopeful?
- keaner17

I agree with the bold which was my point. If he resigns the trade was a success but he is being given every reason not too and I fault Snow with that. To me Snow is giving the impression that this team does not care about winning which is evident by his inaction when this teams wheels have fallen off. That is exactly what Vanek didn't want to sign up for. It goes against every reason of making the trade successful in the first place. Complete incompetence. The guy is not even trying to change it up. It's not stubborness at this point and if he thinks that's the way it's being perceived by the fan base or league he's fooling himself which I'm not overly shocked by. I feel he's been fooling himself and some fans for a long time now.

I'm aware but like i said he is a better overall player than Moulson. I think even most of Moulson's biggest fans could acknowledge that?
- Cptmjl

I'm a Moulson fan but Vanek is perceived by the league as the better player...but I think you hit the nail on the head in one of your posts that Snow shouldn't have ended there after he got Vanek...

I think Vanek is a fish out of water with this team right now. This is not a two-way hockey team right now which means players who aren't strong backcheckers like Vanek or Moulson become more glaring in their defensive shortcomings. I also think Vanek is learning (this is my whining portion) that the Isles get a lot less respect from officials than most other teams. He's constantly getting held, dragged down etc and you can clearly see his frustration is starting to get the better of him. This is a rough stretch for the team and Vanek especially. Eventually things may turn around and he'll score in bunches but the damage is likely done.
- keaner17

That's actually when I see the most emotion come out actually. I HATE to say that the refs act like that towards the Isles because I feel like it's just part of the game and in the end it all evens out, but it's definitely a valid observation.

I wish Lubo would just feel better already, get cleared to play again, and then we can at least see where this team is headed with a healthy roster. Concussions are such a horribly frustrating injury to have, and since he's under contract through next season I definitely don't want him rushing back before he's ready...

Probably right b/c they still would have no defense and sub par goalie.
- niteislander

Moulson had the 1st line pinned in the defensive zone constantly with his horrible abilities in the 197 feet in front of the opposition's net. Vanek, while not stellar defensively, is not a detriment like Moulson is/was. Vanek creates space, Moulson shrinks space. While they put up similar numbers offensively, I still think Vanek is the better player. I'm not gonna kill anyone for their opinion, just stating why I think Vanek is better. It's easy to pin the teams atrocious play on the Vanek deal, but it was a perfect storm. They were sucking, just not as bad. Like other posters stated, it had more to do with losing Strait and Vis than the trade.

Moulson might produce with Strome. I have been really impressed with Strome. I think he will become a #2 center for the Islanders...
- kear20

He certainly has the potential too. I feel if he continues to be given playing time he will start producing real soon. His line just needs to get some more O time. They've been playing too much in their own end.

I'm a Moulson fan but Vanek is perceived by the league as the better player...but I think you hit the nail on the head in one of your posts that Snow shouldn't have ended there after he got Vanek...
- kear20

He shouldn't have for a number of reasons some of which I mentoned least of all because of the trade we are discussing.

I agree with the bold which was my point. If he resigns the trade was a success but he is being given every reason not too and I fault Snow with that.
- Cptmjl

Agreed. It was another example of Snow drastically overestimating his team. I think going into the season, Snow saw us returning to the playoffs and that Vanek's addition was an upgrade to the top line. I would have agreed with that assertion. From that standpoint, he was gambling that Vanek would find comradery with Okposo (fellow Minnesota alumn) and be enamored with playing with JT all the while falling in love with Long Island.

Then Vis and Strait go down, the defense falls apart..Amac on the powerplay and logging 30 minutes...disaster.

So the risk made a lot more sense. I think it's astounding the eventually negative impact Visnovsky's concussion will have had on this season and beyond.

Holy poop...none (NONE) of my posts are a player comparison between the two 26s. Can I not emphasize that enough?
- potvin05

Then I don't get your point. Are you saying that the trade was bad because we didn't address areas of need? Because if so, nobody here will disagree with you. Are you saying that it's a bad trade because is the picks involved? Well, maybe it will be. But that depends.

Moulson was not being re-signed. He is likely looking at a Clarkson type deal or somewhere in that range. No way the Isles pay Moulson $6M per. You move him for Vanek, a far better player, along with a protected first and second. Truth is, you will be able to flip Vanek for a first, maybe a First and a mid level prospect or 3rd too if he doesn't re-sign (which I doubt he will). So, for the cost of a second rounder and a lower pick in the first round of a weak draft, you took a chance on obtaining and signing Vanek, a true high end wing with 40 goal potential.

Again, would I have rather seen Moulskn and those picks moved for a top pair DMan or starting goaltender under contract? Absolutely. I just take umbrage with the suggestion that Moulson was traded, Vanek came in and then the season went to s**t. As if Vanek is the culprit. The season was going poorly before the deal, hence the reason Garth made the move. And it's been the lack of secondary scoring (again) and the miserable "D" that have caused this season to spiral down the toilet.

Moulson had the 1st line pinned in the defensive zone constantly with his horrible abilities in the 197 feet in front of the opposition's net. Vanek, while not stellar defensively, is not a detriment like Moulson is/was. Vanek creates space, Moulson shrinks space. While they put up similar numbers offensively, I still think Vanek is the better player. I'm not gonna kill anyone for their opinion, just stating why I think Vanek is better. It's easy to pin the teams atrocious play on the Vanek deal, but it was a perfect storm. They were sucking, just not as bad. Like other posters stated, it had more to do with losing Strait and Vis than the trade.
- Charlie21

BINGO. Moulson is a Tim Kerr type guy. He scores because that's all he's capable of doing. If you tell me you're going to play wing and camp in front of the net all game long without offering ANYTHING else, I EXPECT you to nail at least 30 goals home on my top line. Anything less and you belong in the AHL. In the case of Vanek, he's a damn fine passer too who has given JT and KO more space than they've ever seen.

Feel free to pull up the Penguins game we were winning at home. check the highlights.. u know the game where Vanek took a stupid Penalty that gave the pens the game tieing goal and then the OT Crosby stripping him of the puck for the game winner.
- niteislander

You cherry pick one shift in one game of 15 to label Vanek a bad player? Why not look up Moulson's games last spring against that same Pens team and tell me who looks worse.

That's actually when I see the most emotion come out actually. I HATE to say that the refs act like that towards the Isles because I feel like it's just part of the game and in the end it all evens out, but it's definitely a valid observation.I wish Lubo would just feel better already, get cleared to play again, and then we can at least see where this team is headed with a healthy roster. Concussions are such a horribly frustrating injury to have, and since he's under contract through next season I definitely don't want him rushing back before he's ready...
- WolfmanIsles

The perfect example was the Pens game. Letang crosschecks him to the ice twice in front of the refs, then Vanek gets called for the retaliatory chop.

I hate this team. That's all I got for today.

Agreed. It was another example of Snow drastically overestimating his team. I think going into the season, Snow saw us returning to the playoffs and that Vanek's addition was an upgrade to the top line. I would have agreed with that assertion. From that standpoint, he was gambling that Vanek would find comradery with Okposo (fellow Minnesota alumn) and be enamored with playing with JT all the while falling in love with Long Island.

Then Vis and Strait go down, the defense falls apart..Amac on the powerplay and logging 30 minutes...disaster.

So the risk made a lot more sense. I think it's astounding the eventually negative impact Visnovsky's concussion will have had on this season and beyond.
- keaner17

Damn beat my edit! As far as the bold goes that in itself is a knock on Snow as a GM. Our blue line should've never been thin enough where losing a top 4 D man would have this much of an effect. I know Vis is more to this team so we don't need to get into that but that in itself tells you there was something wrong with our offseason.

He is a much better player than Moulson. Much better in the neutral zone(where Moulson was deplorable), defensively(which says a lot about Moulson), along the boards, he is a much better overall player. I'm not saying Vanek is some great two way player but he is a MUCH better player than Matt Moulson.
- Cptmjl

Actually he isn't better than Moulson in the neutral zone statistically and he turns the puck over a lot more. He's a better player than moulson but not much better, not two draft picks better and not $2-$3 mill a year better

Couldn't agree more. I was psyched and completely anticipated another move that never came. Now anyone that I ever told to stop crying about Moulson and get psyched for Vanek and what's to come is giving me nonstop crap. I think at one point these Moulson apologists were giving me more garbage comments than Rags fans.

Does anyone else feel like Vanek isn't playing to 100% potential because of the mess the team is in? Just looking for opinions...I didn't see him too much in Buffalo outside of the games against the Isles and was wondering. At times I see a fire come out in him, but not the majority of the time.
- WolfmanIsles

Yes. It's a bad environment. I didn't need Roloson to point that out to me a couple of years ago. It's a losing environment and to me it's obvious with the overall attitude of the players, coaches, and lack of effort from management. That's why there needs to be changes in coaching as well as management.