I think the problem is, Hartnell's realistic value isn't as bad as you make it out to be.
- JAKEw1234

It's less about Hartnell, and more about Shattenkirk. He's already one of the top-20 dmen in the league... maybe even top-10... and he's only 24-25. That kind of player doesn't get traded for Ryan Clowe 2.0.

Hartnell is immoveable. If the Flyers can move him w/o picking up 50% of his contract it would be a miracle.
- flyguy12

With the cap going up to 70 million the cap isn't the issue. IMO its the term and his recent production and play.

Hartnell is immoveable. If the Flyers can move him w/o picking up 50% of his contract it would be a miracle.
- flyguy12

I don't think you have any realistic idea of if he is actually movable or not, but rather assume he isn't because you don't like him and don't like his contract.

I don't think you have any realistic idea of if he is actually movable or not, but rather assume he isn't because you don't like him and don't like his contract.
- JAKEw1234

The realistic idea is called my opinion. Welcome to Hockeybuzz.

I think the problem is, Hartnell's realistic value isn't as bad as you make it out to be.
- JAKEw1234

Hartnell hasn't done much since he signed his extension. He needs to be going to the nasty areas and being a pest to be effective, and he's really not been doing that since the 2012 playoffs.

That's when Hartnell an effective player. It leads to him being productive and even in the past, when he struggled to produce he was still going to the high traffic areas and getting under people's skin.

The cap hit, remaining salary and term left, combined with the ineffective play and lack of production, as well as his age, will probably scare teams off to some degree and certainly lessen his value.

Oh, and even if you find a team willing to take on his contract and all the other factors, he's got a NMC...so if it's an undesireable city, he can tell you to GFY

It's less about Hartnell, and more about Shattenkirk. He's already one of the top-20 dmen in the league... maybe even top-10... and he's only 24-25. That kind of player doesn't get traded for Ryan Clowe 2.0.
- Tomahawk

He's really not in the top 20. He's a great young dman, but I think you're overvaluing him.

The realistic idea is called my opinion. Welcome to Hockeybuzz.
- flyguy12

Opinions are like bumholes. Everyone has one and they all stink.

All those teams don't have enough cap-space... all in LTIR. Except for ANA, but they're closer to the Avs situation than a last-piece-of-the-puzzle kind of team.
- Tomahawk

If Anaheim gets stale this year. I was thinking if they'd go for something like voracek/Gus for palmieri/vatanen. Really like vatanen and palmieri could make downie expendable. The just go a different direction this summer for the top line

Hartnell hasn't done much since he signed his extension. He needs to be going to the nasty areas and being a pest to be effective, and he's really not been doing that since the 2012 playoffs.

That's when Hartnell an effective player. It leads to him being productive and even in the past, when he struggled to produce he was still going to the high traffic areas and getting under people's skin.

The cap hit, remaining salary and term left, combined with the ineffective play and lack of production, as well as his age, will probably scare teams off to some degree and certainly lessen his value.

Oh, and even if you find a team willing to take on his contract and all the other factors, he's got a NMC...so if it's an undesireable city, he can tell you to GFY
- Jsaquella

I believe the chances are very low in moving hartnell. Not that there arent a few teams interested, cause I'm sure there will be. But I think the major hurtle would be his NMC and what the Flyers are willing to take for him.

He's really not in the top 20. He's a great young dman, but I think you're overvaluing him.
- JAKEw1234

He's currently tied for 7th in scoring among d-men... and that's with J-Bo and Petro hogging the lion's share of the minutes.

I believe the chances are very low in moving hartnell. Not that there arent a few teams interested, cause I'm sure there will be. But I think the major hurtle would be his NMC and what the Flyers are willing to take for him.
- youarewrong

I think it's possible, but it'd be a deal where you basically give him away and maybe eat some money. I'd be amazed if they could move him and actually get a really decent asset.

Most likely it'd be a 2nd rounder/mid tier prospect for him, or maybe another team send you their own veteran headache with too many years & money left on his deal for him.

Hartnell hasn't done much since he signed his extension. He needs to be going to the nasty areas and being a pest to be effective, and he's really not been doing that since the 2012 playoffs.

That's when Hartnell an effective player. It leads to him being productive and even in the past, when he struggled to produce he was still going to the high traffic areas and getting under people's skin.

The cap hit, remaining salary and term left, combined with the ineffective play and lack of production, as well as his age, will probably scare teams off to some degree and certainly lessen his value.

Oh, and even if you find a team willing to take on his contract and all the other factors, he's got a NMC...so if it's an undesireable city, he can tell you to GFY
- Jsaquella

I was going off the assumption that St. Louis does in fact, have interest in him. Probably a dumb assumption since it came from Ek, but it was for the sake of the argument.

He's currently tied for 7th in scoring among d-men... and that's with J-Bo and Petro hogging the lion's share of the minutes.
- Tomahawk

Sure, and Suter is tied for 16th, and Weber for 22nd. Do you consider Shattenkirk better than either of them?

He's currently tied for 7th in scoring among d-men... and that's with J-Bo and Petro hogging the lion's share of the minutes.
- Tomahawk

Shat is the real deal. Watching him he's subban with a little less flash, skill, and dumb

I think it's possible, but it'd be a deal where you basically give him away and maybe eat some money. I'd be amazed if they could move him and actually get a really decent asset.

Most likely it'd be a 2nd rounder/mid tier prospect for him, or maybe another team send you their own veteran headache with too many years & money left on his deal for him.
- Jsaquella

I'd eat 1/2 of his salary if it could get me a right-shot d-prospect like Hakanpaa or Schmaltz.

Sure, and Suter is tied for 16th, and Weber for 22nd. Do you consider Shattenkirk better than either of them?
- JAKEw1234

How did you from top-20 to better than Suter/Weber?

I was going off the assumption that St. Louis does in fact, have interest in him. Probably a dumb assumption since it came from Ek, but it was for the sake of the argument.
- JAKEw1234

Even if they have interest, they're not going to send you Shattenkirk & do you the favor of taking Hartnell's extension off your books. You want Shattenkirk, be prepared to offer a huge return to St Louis.

The other thing in St Louis being interested means that the Flyers will have to take back some money. Blues are in LTIR, too, so they'd need to dump about $2mm to make it work...might mean a guy like Roman Polak or maybe Brian Elliott.

I'd eat 1/2 of his salary if it could get me a right-shot d-prospect like Hakanpaa or Schmaltz.
- Tomahawk

I wouldn't want to carry around more dead space for the next 5 or 6 years. That's the bad side to the rule.

I wonder if they can trade him to a team that still has a CBO left and have them buy him out and eat 50% of that

I wonder if they can trade him to a team that still has a CBO left and have them buy him out and eat 50% of that
- Jsaquella

I'm really wondering how that would work now...

How did you from top-20 to better than Suter/Weber?
- Tomahawk

I mean that there are better defenseman than Shattenkirk lower than him in the point standings, so arguing that he is a top 20 dman in the league because he's tied for 7th in D scoring with 4 other guys at game 35 doesn't make much sense. I like Shats. He's a great young Dman. I never suggested we could get him for Hartnell straight up. I was just saying that, if in fact St Louis has interest in Hartsy like Ek claims, we should target Shats.

I mean that there are better defenseman than Shattenkirk lower than him in the point standings, so arguing that he is a top 20 dman in the league because he's tied for 7th in D scoring with 4 other guys at game 35 doesn't make much sense. I like Shats. He's a great young Dman. I never suggested we could get him for Hartnell straight up. I was just saying that, if in fact St Louis has interest in Hartsy like Ek claims, we should target Shats.
- JAKEw1234

There is no need to defend yourself!

In the words of Théoden! Take him head on!

Even if they have interest, they're not going to send you Shattenkirk & do you the favor of taking Hartnell's extension off your books. You want Shattenkirk, be prepared to offer a huge return to St Louis.

The other thing in St Louis being interested means that the Flyers will have to take back some money. Blues are in LTIR, too, so they'd need to dump about $2mm to make it work...might mean a guy like Roman Polak or maybe Brian Elliott.
- Jsaquella

If they're getting a forward you'd think they would try to dump another forward.

There is no need to defend yourself!

In the words of Théoden! Take him head on!
- flyer_nutter

If they're getting a forward you'd think they would try to dump another forward.
- JAKEw1234

I suspect that Patrik Berglund is the chip they'll try to use to get whatever help they need... he's on a 1-year show-me deal and he hasn't really shown too much.

Of course, he's not exactly what the Flyers need right now.

So it's been a couple months. Whats the consensus on NHL 14? Still not sure if I'm going to get it. Only concerned about the GM mode really