I agree, and you can add Ryan and Hall there as well. But isn't Ovi a center?
- mighty13duck

hall is a LW and ryan isn't THAT good. ryan is a hell of a winger but he's not as good as nash in my opinion.

and no, backstrom has centered ovechkin for years.

how was seguin's close to $6 million a year contract something that helped his value when he was unproven and nobody knew if he was worth it?

yes seguin was young, but he also didn't do anything to warrant that deal and it was a huge risk of a trade. obviously is paid off, but come on...some people even thought boston won the trade when it went down because seguin was such a question mark at the time.

young center's of seguin's pedigree never hit the market, but wingers of nash's talent never do either...
- rangerdanger94

The contract is large yes but there's no doubt which of the deals I'd rather have taken, and that's not just hindsight.

But top line centers will ALWAYS be more valuable than top line wingers, especially young ones.

Seguin put up 29 goals and 67 points as a 19 year old and .6 PPG as a 20 year old, the year he was supposed to have dragged down the team as a total cancer. Tell me how many players of that age put up those stats?

The contract is large yes but there's no doubt which of the deals I'd rather have taken, and that's not just hindsight.

But top line centers will ALWAYS be more valuable than top line wingers, especially young ones.

Seguin put up 29 goals and 67 points as a 19 year old and 25 goals as a 20 year old, the year he was supposed to have dragged down the team as a total cancer. Tell me how many players of that age put up those stats?
- S Kaspar Rollins

rick nash for one.

yea because all the pieces boston traded seguin for fit the boston model of big and mean too?

whatever. it's a pointless debate. nash was considered an automatic lock for top 10 player in the entire NHL a few years ago but now, not so much. don't really understand it. he was unbelievable for the rangers last year, besides the playoffs, and has been our best forward this year too. to say he hasn't done anything special isn't a fair statement.

i have no issues with nash's salary and think he is every bit worth it. i was surprised at how great of a player nash was when he got over here and he far exceeded my expectations. the goals he's scored for us are unreal.
- rangerdanger94

No he was not a top ten player a few years ago. Not at all. And 70 point guys aren't worth 8 mil.

hall is a LW and ryan isn't THAT good. ryan is a hell of a winger but he's not as good as nash in my opinion.

and no, backstrom has centered ovechkin for years.
- rangerdanger94

Taylor hall is the easy choice between the two right now. I'd just be concerned about health. But hes taken off and is far better.

No he was not a top ten player a few years ago. Not at all. And 70 point guys aren't worth 8 mil.
- prock

i'm sure that's why rick nash was on the 1st line on Canada's gold medal team a few years ago.

Taylor hall is the easy choice between the two right now. I'd just be concerned about health. But hes taken off and is far better.
- prock

well taylor hall plays a different position soooo....

While much of this rings true, I have one reason for being interested in paying a steep price for Nash if I'm Bergevin, and he wears #27 in Montreal right now.
- kev1586

You know what, totally agree with the concept. I've been talking with buddies about the Habs need to add a pure sniper to play (take advantage of) Galchenyuk's skill and vision. Great response bro, but I'm not sure I would want Nash at the cost, both in trade and cap.

yea because all the pieces boston traded seguin for fit the boston model of big and mean too?

whatever. it's a pointless debate. nash was considered an automatic lock for top 10 player in the entire NHL a few years ago but now, not so much. don't really understand it. he was unbelievable for the rangers last year, besides the playoffs, and has been our best forward this year too. to say he hasn't done anything special isn't a fair statement.

i have no issues with nash's salary and think he is every bit worth it. i was surprised at how great of a player nash was when he got over here and he far exceeded my expectations. the goals he's scored for us are unreal.
- rangerdanger94

I just don't see him as THE player (Crosby, toews, perry, Kane) that singlehanded lay can take over a game. I see him as a great part of a team but not the driver of the bus, if you get my meaning. Just my opinion. I think his cap hit is too much. Maybe in 3 years it won't be bad, but he may not be as good in 3 years either.

Either way, if sather was offer Pacioretty, Gallagher, and a first rounder for Nash he would take it in a heartbeat. And Bergevin should be fired on the spot.

If I can muse about a trade proposal I would say: Gorges, Bourque, Patyrn/Thrower and a 2nd for brassard and Girardi (if they agree to contract extensions). I'm sure that will get ripped but I think it's a hockey trade.

Taylor hall is the easy choice between the two right now. I'd just be concerned about health. But hes taken off and is far better.
- prock

If you don't think being on a team that over 9 years on average finished 25th for 9 years straight I find it really hard to believe that he wouldn't of had a hell of a lot more points had he played on a team that even on average over 9 years finished 15th. You can't tell me you don't think that if you put James Neal on the Sabres his point production would drastically drop. If you aren't Alex Ovechkin or Sidney Crosby you likely wouldn't be able to put up better numbers than Nash how a team as bad as the Columbus one he was one for like 9 years.


Edit: I quoted the wrong guy haha

I just don't see him as THE player (Crosby, toews, perry, Kane) that singlehanded lay can take over a game. I see him as a great part of a team but not the driver of the bus, if you get my meaning. Just my opinion. I think his cap hit is too much. Maybe in 3 years it won't be bad, but he may not be as good in 3 years either.

Either way, if sather was offer Pacioretty, Gallagher, and a first rounder for Nash he would take it in a heartbeat. And Bergevin should be fired on the spot.

If I can muse about a trade proposal I would say: Gorges, Bourque, Patyrn/Thrower and a 2nd for brassard and Girardi (if they agree to contract extensions). I'm sure that will get ripped but I think it's a hockey trade.
- SmielmaN

nash can take over a game but the problem is he doesn't do it as consistently as the other guys you mentioned. he can conquer and dominate 3 or 4 games in a row, and then not do anything for 2 or 3 games, and then dominate for another couple games, and then disappear for a bit. i guess that most wingers tend to do that. i'd take any of the guys you mentioned over nash, but he's pretty close. the thing with nash is a world-class skater, world-class sniper, has maybe a top 5 set of of hands in the league, can dish the puck and has solid vision, and is HUGE. his size is what makes him, like perry, such gamebreakers.

but yea, i just don't see a deal to be made involving nash. i don't think he's being shopped at all. i could see pacioretty for a guy like stepan+ or maybe in a package surrounding kreider.

If you don't think being on a team that over 9 years on average finished 25th for 9 years straight I find it really hard to believe that he wouldn't of had a hell of a lot more points had he played on a team that even on average over 9 years finished 15th. You can't tell me you don't think that if you put James Neal on the Sabres his point production would drastically drop. If you aren't Alex Ovechkin or Sidney Crosby you likely wouldn't be able to put up better numbers than Nash how a team as bad as the Columbus one he was one for like 9 years.
- blizzzard

you know when a devils fan is arguing in favor of nash that people are really underselling him

Habs have a plethora of moves that they need to happen before they can be considered a contender. Those moves will unfold over time with expiring contracts and trades.
I do however believe that there is a opportunity for MB to send Gorges to EDM. As much as I admire him (like most hab fans) his contract simply is not logical for his output.

To EDM:
Gorges + Colberg or Hudon (need to get bigger) & 1st
To MTL:
Yakupov + Jones

That's my make belief trade scenario. Chew it up.

you know when a devils fan is arguing in favor of nash that people are really underselling him
- rangerdanger94

I already put up a thing a few pages ago.

I already put up a thing a few pages ago.
- blizzzard

people don't understand what nash can do with the puck. his hands are just out of this world especially for someone his size. he's a special player. it's a shame people don't watch him enough to realize it, although they can just look up his goals and see they're all highlight-reel material.

nash can take over a game but the problem is he doesn't do it as consistently as the other guys you mentioned. he can conquer and dominate 3 or 4 games in a row, and then not do anything for 2 or 3 games, and then dominate for another couple games, and then disappear for a bit. i guess that most wingers tend to do that. i'd take any of the guys you mentioned over nash, but he's pretty close. the thing with nash is a world-class skater, world-class sniper, has maybe a top 5 set of of hands in the league, can dish the puck and has solid vision, and is HUGE. his size is what makes him, like perry, such gamebreakers.

but yea, i just don't see a deal to be made involving nash. i don't think he's being shopped at all. i could see pacioretty for a guy like stepan+ or maybe in a package surrounding kreider.
- rangerdanger94

As a Habs fan I would really like to add Stepan, but I don't think NYR are looking to deal him. I don't think they are trading Kreider either. But I guess it could depend in what Stepan wants in his next contract?

I can see A Montreal deal involving one, or a couple of, Gionta, Pleks/Eller (depending on the return), bourque, DD (lol), Diaz, and Gorges. I think the goal next year is to move Galchenyuk to center so one of Pleks or Eller will go (unless Eller signs for 3-3.5 mill) and they need to bring in a scorer. Then I think Tinordi and Beaulieu will be given a solid shot at cracking the roster so with the resigning of Subban and probably Markov we have a bit of depth on D. So that makes Gorges and Diaz expendable.

I don't think I'm so far off the map as Montreal has been rumored to be looking to make big deals for scoring.

With regards to NYR I wonder if they will fire AV before trading off solid players/prospects (MDZ).

Also, why has Lundqvists play dropped off? It can't just be smaller pads?

Habs have a plethora of moves that they need to happen before they can be considered a contender. Those moves will unfold over time with expiring contracts and trades.
I do however believe that there is a opportunity for MB to send Gorges to EDM. As much as I admire him (like most hab fans) his contract simply is not logical for his output.

To EDM:
Gorges + Colberg or Hudon (need to get bigger) & 1st
To MTL:
Yakupov + Jones

That's my make belief trade scenario. Chew it up.
- THEBIGDEAL

Omg if you and I were the GM's of our respective teams you would hear my boner over the phone if you offered me that deal. Except I would weasel a 2nd rdr out of you lol. And I would give you Hudon.

Edit: see your a Habs fan too lol. Explains the trade scenario hahahah. I assumed you were a Edm fan without looking at your name

people don't understand what nash can do with the puck. his hands are just out of this world especially for someone his size. he's a special player. it's a shame people don't watch him enough to realize it, although they can just look up his goals and see they're all highlight-reel material.
- rangerdanger94

I would be interested knowing in the nine years Nash played for the Jackets every teams record an who on average though the entire league who had the worst average in that span. The see if Columbus is in the bottom or what teams where near them to see if anyone could be compared to Nash's production

Cancer in the room too. You really want that around?
- prock

Yeah, it must be all that time you spend in the Habs' room. That, or you're a mindless lemming who parrots what he hears coming out of non-Montreal media. Either way, you must be super proud.

As a Habs fan I would really like to add Stepan, but I don't think NYR are looking to deal him. I don't think they are trading Kreider either. But I guess it could depend in what Stepan wants in his next contract?

I can see A Montreal deal involving one, or a couple of, Gionta, Pleks/Eller (depending on the return), bourque, DD (lol), Diaz, and Gorges. I think the goal next year is to move Galchenyuk to center so one of Pleks or Eller will go (unless Eller signs for 3-3.5 mill) and they need to bring in a scorer. Then I think Tinordi and Beaulieu will be given a solid shot at cracking the roster so with the resigning of Subban and probably Markov we have a bit of depth on D. So that makes Gorges and Diaz expendable.

I don't think I'm so far off the map as Montreal has been rumored to be looking to make big deals for scoring.

With regards to NYR I wonder if they will fire AV before trading off solid players/prospects (MDZ).

Also, why has Lundqvists play dropped off? It can't just be smaller pads?
- SmielmaN

i wouldn't mind plekanec at all. i don't think the rangers are looking to move a guy like stepan, but if the struggles continue, we might be forced to.

i doubt AV will get fired before a trade happens. he's signed for 4 more season after this one for $2 million per year and it's more a lack of talent on the roster than him being a bad coach. i actually think he's a great coach; the players on the team just seem disinterested and have no battle level.

as for lundqvist...who knows. maybe it's the new defensive system, maybe his mind is already in sochi, or maybe his confidence is rock bottom right now. could be a combination of a few reasons. he's too good of a goalie and too hard of a worker to keep it up all year though, i hope.

i wouldn't mind plekanec at all. i don't think the rangers are looking to move a guy like stepan, but if the struggles continue, we might be forced to.

i doubt AV will get fired before a trade happens. he's signed for 4 more season after this one for $2 million per year and it's more a lack of talent on the roster than him being a bad coach. i actually think he's a great coach; the players on the team just seem disinterested and have no battle level.

as for lundqvist...who knows. maybe it's the new defensive system, maybe his mind is already in sochi, or maybe his confidence is rock bottom right now. could be a combination of a few reasons. he's too good of a goalie and too hard of a worker to keep it up all year though, i hope.
- rangerdanger94

I agree. Hank is too good to stay down too long but it's weird that his play has dropped so far from where he usually is. Also, I know Girardi isn't playing as well as he has, but he's #1 on my free agent wish list for Montreal haha. I would love a D that has Subban, markov, Girardi, Emelin, Diaz/gorges plus Tinordi and beaulieu.

O'Reilly is starting to feel neglected not being attached to Rangers or Canadiens rumours now

O'Reilly is starting to feel neglected not being attached to Rangers or Canadiens rumours now
- DDM-Coga

Lol. Ok.
Gorges, and a 2nd for O'reilly.

i wouldn't mind plekanec at all. i don't think the rangers are looking to move a guy like stepan, but if the struggles continue, we might be forced to.

i doubt AV will get fired before a trade happens. he's signed for 4 more season after this one for $2 million per year and it's more a lack of talent on the roster than him being a bad coach. i actually think he's a great coach; the players on the team just seem disinterested and have no battle level.

as for lundqvist...who knows. maybe it's the new defensive system, maybe his mind is already in sochi, or maybe his confidence is rock bottom right now. could be a combination of a few reasons. he's too good of a goalie and too hard of a worker to keep it up all year though, i hope.
- rangerdanger94

I'd say he's a good coach, not great. A great coach doesn't have obvious weaknesses, he does. His teams usually don't play tough enough, he's not good at in-game adjustments or playoff series adjustments. He's smart with the little things, he'll use zone starts to his advantage for sure and his teams usually have a decent PP.

O'Reilly is starting to feel neglected not being attached to Rangers or Canadiens rumours now
- DDM-Coga

Phaneuf for O'Reilly.

O'Reilly is starting to feel neglected not being attached to Rangers or Canadiens rumours now
- DDM-Coga

Talk to the idiots in the nucks threads. They think they can get him for edler straight up.