In the NHL, his mobility is a major shortcoming.
- robin_steele264

Sure. But there's clearly more to the game than that, or he wouldn't be as effective as he is.

If mobility were the number one consideration, we'd see the league gravitating towards smaller, quicker players instead of the way it has gone for ages - bigger and stronger.

Hey guys... I was wondering what everyone thought of Dion Phaneuf... he's #3 on the Maple Leafs of Toronto...

Pls respond

Hey guys... I was wondering what everyone thought of Dion Phaneuf... he's #3 on the Maple Leafs of Toronto...

Pls respond
- SofaKingBored

Who? Is he rookie or something?

Sure. But there's clearly more to the game than that, or he wouldn't be as effective as he is.

If mobility were the number one consideration, we'd see the league gravitating towards smaller, quicker players instead of the way it has gone for ages - bigger and stronger.
- Leeman4Gilmour

It's about having as complete a game as possible. Not to many guys in the top 20, stink so bad at one facet of their position. It is what it is.

That's just the reality of it. It doesn't mean phaneuf is poop.. But it's a big downside to have. Other teams know his positioning is suspect at times, and he can be pounded every time with speed. Huge liabilities.

The right partner and we're not even really talking about it.

It's about having as complete a game as possible. Not to many guys in the top 20, stink so bad at one facet of their position. It is what it is.

That's just the reality of it. It doesn't mean phaneuf is poop.. But it's a big downside to have. Other teams know his positioning is suspect at times, and he can be pounded every time with speed. Huge liabilities.

The right partner and we're not even really talking about it.
- joel878

First of all, we've gone from Phaneuf having less mobility than others to outright "stinking" at it. That's a stretch.

Secondly, more guys than you'd think have at least one weakness in their games. Look at guys like Karlsson who absolutely fill the net, but have terrible GA/TOI.

It's about having as complete a game as possible. Not to many guys in the top 20, stink so bad at one facet of their position. It is what it is.

That's just the reality of it. It doesn't mean phaneuf is poop.. But it's a big downside to have. Other teams know his positioning is suspect at times, and he can be pounded every time with speed. Huge liabilities.

The right partner and we're not even really talking about it.
- joel878

He's not a guy who gonna calmly skate the puck out of the zone and his outlet passes are often gernade like.

First of all, we've gone from Phaneuf having less mobility than others to outright "stinking" at it. That's a stretch.

Secondly, more guys than you'd think have at least one weakness in their games. Look at guys like Karlsson who absolutely fill the net, but have terrible GA/TOI.
- Leeman4Gilmour

Karlsson can move the puck out of his zone with ease

Karlsson can move the puck out of his zone with ease
- robin_steele264

But he's not going to separate anyone from it with ease either. There's a reason so many goals get scored when he's on the ice.

Great offensively. Defensive shortcomings.

First of all, we've gone from Phaneuf having less mobility than others to outright "stinking" at it. That's a stretch.

Secondly, more guys than you'd think have at least one weakness in their games. Look at guys like Karlsson who absolutely fill the net, but have terrible GA/TOI.
- Leeman4Gilmour

He can downright stink at it at times. He's been way better this year, but horrible for many more.

And while were at it.. His hockey IQ is a huge liability as a whole. Also very improved this year, also historically bad. Not to many other guys on those lists are barfing up the puck in overtime of the playoffs to put their team down 3-1.

I try to stay away from these conversations.. Because your love for phaneuf is historically as blind as it gets. No sense talking about it unless we're going to talk about what a stud he is.

But he's not going to separate anyone from it with ease either. There's a reason so many goals get scored when he's on the ice.

Great offensively. Defensive shortcomings.
- Leeman4Gilmour

He's a pretty damn slick player.

Not gonna throw a big hit, but you dont need to do that to play great D

He's a pretty damn slick player.

Not gonna throw a big hit, but you dont need to do that to play great D
- robin_steele264

And, yet, of all the guys on that list, he plays by far the fewest SH minutes.

He's also a minus-7, despite having 29 points. That's a lot of goals against.

And, yet, of all the guys on that list, he plays by far the fewest SH minutes.

He's also a minus-7, despite having 29 points. That's a lot of goals against.
- Leeman4Gilmour

He also has a Norris to his credit.

Kind of a big deal if we're expected to give Phaneufs 11th place voting in a shortened season any credibility.

He also has a Norris to his credit.

Kind of a big deal if we're expected to give Phaneufs 11th place voting in a shortened season any credibility.
- joel878

Yeah, and I believe Phaneuf finished as the runner-up in his best year (to a guy named Lidstrom, but that's beside the point).

As I said earlier, if we want to look at career potential as a whole, the Phaneuf's best stacks up against anybody's.

Yeah, and I believe Phaneuf finished as the runner-up in his best year (to a guy named Lidstrom, but that's beside the point).

As I said earlier, if we want to look at career potential as a whole, the Phaneuf's best stacks up against anybody's.
- Leeman4Gilmour

As I said, the love is blind and knows no boundaries.

Good chat though.. Cheers.

As I said, the love is blind and knows no boundaries.

Good chat though.. Cheers.
- joel878

Indeed. Take it easy.

He's a pretty damn slick player.

Not gonna throw a big hit, but you dont need to do that to play great D
- robin_steele264

um... Karlsson doesn't play great D. Ever.

he's an excellent offensive defensemen. And that's what the Norris is for (apparently).

but he is abysmal in his own end.

um... Karlsson doesn't play great D. Ever.

he's an excellent offensive defensemen. And that's what the Norris is for (apparently).

but he is abysmal in his own end.
- Badge

For a guy his age I think he'll be just fine.

What he can do is skate the puck out of trouble with ease

Seabrook and Keith play as a pairing. Of course they're going to look make each other look better. Keith is carrying the pairing right now, though.

Seabrook plays a full 3 minutes less than Phaneuf and a minute and a half less PK time per game. I think Phaneuf would be excelling in that role, too.

I'll give you Kronwall. He's playing very well.

JBo is the product of a great system, and even then, his numbers are very similar to Phaneuf's. Phaneuf gets the edge for playing in worse circumstances.

That still puts Phaneuf in the top 10 this year.
- Leeman4Gilmour

...ooookkk whatever you say... Gudbranson gets the edge over dion.. as does tyler myers.

They play in worse circumstances

...ooookkk whatever you say... Gudbranson gets the edge over dion.. as does tyler myers.

They play in worse circumstances
- Cherry--Skoal

*sigh*

I don't know why I came back to this thread before kicking off for the night, but I have to address the obvious flaw in your false equivalence here.

Phaneuf still manages to put up very effective numbers playing in these circumstances (poor circumstances that are actually quantifiable: Quality of competition, teammate, defensive zone starts, etc).

I suspect that if Gudbranson or Myers proved that they could play on par with other top defensemen in the league on their crappy teams, they would be highly regarded as well.

Phaneuf isn't highly regarded because he plays on a crappy team in crappy situations. He's highly regarded because he's playing effectively, even in those situations.

The context adds deeper insight to the stats we all see. I mean, Mark Fraser led the team in +/- last year. Without context, that means nothing.

Holy poop, page after (frank)ing page of Phaneuf arguments.

Doesn't matter what any of you think, management will make the final decision regardless what you think.

Give it up, FFS.

lets party

Holy (frank) no wonder we aren't even close to being contenders when he is considered our best dman.

He is a complimentary top pairing dman at best. IMO he should be a 3 man making 6 milly.
- Pikey Fan

Please name 60 d men better then Phaneuf.

Holy poop, page after (frank)ing page of Phaneuf arguments.

Doesn't matter what any of you think, management will make the final decision regardless what you think.

Give it up, FFS.
- sloppyseconds2

It's what we do SS2.

Please name 60 d men better then Phaneuf.
- Yeti1181

Here we go