His play has improved greatly.

Even his last year with calgary I couldnt get over how he was just all over the ice.

Guy's skating and mobility is as good as it gets
- robin_steele264

I would love JBo so much.

This is why I like Percy... give him time to develop and he could be a J-Bo-light....

I'm taking bouwmeester, Markov, vlasic, and orpik off that list.

Chara is going on.

Guys like OEL, kronwall probably fit in there somewhere..
- joel878

Can't believe i forgot Chara. he is top five

LOL... yes we made that together

Guys who are playing way better get canceled out cause their team is good though.
- robin_steele264

The guy is either trolling or... what is a politically correct word to use? Mentally handicapped?

Yes, a list you collaborated on. You had 3 suggested additions. I gave you one and challenged the other two with facts.

I'll even give you another and Phaneuf is still in the top 10.
- Leeman4Gilmour

stop using that word

LOL... yes we made that together

Guys who are playing way better get canceled out cause their team is good though.
- robin_steele264

I assume this is in regards to Seabrook and JBo.

In both cases, there are many areas where Phaneuf has the edge this year. Yes, quality of teammates is one of them. Things like hits, blocked shots, TOI, quality of competition, etc. are some others.

He's not.

But if Jbo was traded to the Leafs and Dion was never in the spotlight of Toronto I have a feeling his name would rarely ever come up in the 'elite dman' discussion.

Just a hunch
- robin_steele264

If the numbers hold up, I'm pretty sure this will be the first time in his career Jbo gets more points than Phaneuf.

If the numbers hold up, I'm pretty sure this will be the first time in his career Jbo gets more points than Phaneuf.
- Big_Lightnin

Shhh... we only care about career numbers when they're not in Phaneuf's favor here.

If the numbers hold up, I'm pretty sure this will be the first time in his career Jbo gets more points than Phaneuf.
- Big_Lightnin

Jbo doesnt get caught out of position and no one in the league will burn him with speed.

I assume this is in regards to Seabrook and JBo.

In both cases, there are many areas where Phaneuf has the edge this year. Yes, quality of teammates is one of them. Things like hits, blocked shots, TOI, quality of competition, etc. are some others.
- Leeman4Gilmour

Hockey IQ?

I'd say there's far more to the defensive side of the game than that.

Phaneuf finished 10th last year. Are you willing to concede his Norris ranking (11th) was roughly accurate?

I'm assuming not.
- Leeman4Gilmour

I'm just trying to find the line.. Because when it was weber and phaneuf all we were told was to look up the numbers..

I think it was a few spots high.. But I'll concede to the general area.

I also think it was a 48 game season, and can't help but factor that were basically seeing phaneuf play his first plus hockey as a leaf.

You said top 15. I said top 20. We're not that far off.

You obviously put a lot more weight on your position than I do mine.

I also think you'd be hard pressed to find a few guys on any of those lists who have as obvious shortcomings to their games as phaneuf does his.

And I also think the leafs would be stupid to trade him, unless by some random miracle, they were getting a guy higher on those lists in return.

Jbo doesnt get caught out of position and no one in the league will burn him with speed.
- robin_steele264

Just bang him already then.

I assume this is in regards to Seabrook and JBo.

In both cases, there are many areas where Phaneuf has the edge this year. Yes, quality of teammates is one of them. Things like hits, blocked shots, TOI, quality of competition, etc. are some others.
- Leeman4Gilmour

I disagree with you.


I bet the Olympic team does too

Just bang him already then.
- Nucker101

Outta my league

Jbo doesnt get caught out of position and no one in the league will burn him with speed.
- robin_steele264

Bet ya kessel does tomorrow

Bet ya kessel does tomorrow
- Big_Lightnin

watch for that

Hockey IQ?
- Pikey Fan

Have any way to measure that?

Phaneuf has an exceptional ES TOI/GA. He's been playing loads of SH minutes. He's got a great +/-. He's throwing hits and blocking shots.

All of this can be put in the context of his quality of opponent, his quality of teammate, and the circumstances he is asked to play in (stats like defensive starts).

When these things are all taken as a whole, he is among the top 10 defensemen so far this year.

I'm just trying to find the line.. Because when it was weber and phaneuf all we were told was to look up the numbers..

I think it was a few spots high.. But I'll concede to the general area.

I also think it was a 48 game season, and can't help but factor that were basically seeing phaneuf play his first plus hockey as a leaf.

You said top 15. I said top 20. We're not that far off.

You obviously put a lot more weight on your position than I do mine.

I also think you'd be hard pressed to find a few guys on any of those lists who have as obvious shortcomings to their games as phaneuf does his.

And I also think the leafs would be stupid to trade him, unless by some random miracle, they were getting a guy higher on those lists in return.
- joel878

cheers

I disagree with you.


I bet the Olympic team does too
- robin_steele264

I'll be giving you the win on seabrook.

I'm on the fence with JBo. His play this year has him up there.. But the previous few seasons can't be ignored. He seems to play far worse on garbage teams than phaneuf does.

Have any way to measure that?

Phaneuf has an exceptional ES TOI/GA. He's been playing loads of SH minutes. He's got a great +/-. He's throwing hits and blocking shots.

All of this can be put in the context of his quality of opponent, his quality of teammate, and the circumstances he is asked to play in (stats like defensive starts).

When these things are all taken as a whole, he is among the top 10 defensemen so far this year.
- Leeman4Gilmour

# of times Leaf fans throw something at the TV and scream FFS GET PHANOOF OFF THE ICE

high number

I'll be giving you the win on seabrook.

I'm on the fence with JBo. His play this year has him up there.. But the previous few seasons can't be ignored. He seems to play far worse on garbage teams than phaneuf does.
- joel878

Keep an eye on him next game...

I disagree with you.


I bet the Olympic team does too
- robin_steele264

This is probably the third time I've said this, but the Olympic team is looking for skills that translate to the larger ice.

Yeah, guys with more mobility will obviously have the edge. But until the NHL starts playing on international ice, I'm going to judge Phaneuf by NHL standards.

# of times Leaf fans throw something at the TV and scream FFS GET PHANOOF OFF THE ICE

high number
- robin_steele264

Larry Murphy led the league in that category, too.

Hell, Salming was hated for the longest time just for being a Swede.

Defensemen in Toronto get shredded to pieces. You've got a guy who can play effectively while taking the heat? Great. Hang onto that guy for dear life.

cheers
- robin_steele264

This is probably the third time I've said this, but the Olympic team is looking for skills that translate to the larger ice.

Yeah, guys with more mobility will obviously have the edge. But until the NHL starts playing on international ice, I'm going to judge Phaneuf by NHL standards.
- Leeman4Gilmour

In the NHL, his mobility is a major shortcoming.

Keep an eye on him next game...
- robin_steele264

Absolutely.