1. Suter
2. Doughty
3. Karlsson
4. Pietrangelo
5. Weber
6. Subban
7. Keith
8. McDonagh
9. Seabrook
10. Bouwmeester
11. Markov
12. Staal
13. Vlasic
14. Letang
15. Shattenkirk
16. Orpik
17. Phaneuf

Edit: 30 teams is Dion in top 30? Yes. Top pairing dman? Yes. 7x8
- Pikey Fan

I'm taking bouwmeester, Markov, vlasic, and orpik off that list.

Chara is going on.

Guys like OEL, kronwall probably fit in there somewhere..

I'm taking bouwmeester, Markov, vlasic, and orpik off that list.

Chara is going on.

Guys like OEL, kronwall probably fit in there somewhere..
- joel878

Jbo having tremendous year.

I'm taking bouwmeester, Markov, vlasic, and orpik off that list.

Chara is going on.

Guys like OEL, kronwall probably fit in there somewhere..
- joel878

And yes

I'm taking bouwmeester, Markov, vlasic, and orpik off that list.

Chara is going on.

Guys like OEL, kronwall probably fit in there somewhere..
- joel878

Yup.

Make the top 15 list. Player by player plz
- Pikey Fan

Sure. I won't put them in precise order because - well, I'm way too lazy to do that - and because it will just turn into a giant argument about tiny differences in ranking.

Here we go in no particular order. Defensemen generally better than Phaneuf:

Doughty
Keith
Subban
Seabrook
Weber
Suter
Chara
Pietrangelo
OEL
Letang
Karlsson

So, there's 11 for you. There might be one or two more, but it gets cloudy. It really depends on what you want to go back and look at. If you want to include Phaneuf's career years in Calgary, they're as good as any. Whatever. That's firmly in the 10-15 range.

Defensemen who are better than Phaneuf this year:

Keith
Suter
OEL
Subban
Pietrangelo
Doughty
Karlsson if you're really into point production.

Jbo having tremendous year.
- robin_steele264

Situation he's in kinda helps

Okay I apologize everybody.

Phaneuf wants 7 million. So he isn't better than Weber and Suter. But thinks he is comparable enough to get the same salary. So that's 7 mil a year.

Suter makes 7.5, Weber makes 7.8. And since Phaneuf is only slightly worse he will get 7x8.

The guy isn't even worth 6.5 thats why the flames dumped him for garbage. It was a salary dump. Phaneuf is playing good I'll admit. But not good by number one dman standards
- Pikey Fan

Why are you even comparing those horrible front sided contracts to a contract Phaneuf signs?

If Phaneuf signs a contract, his cap hit will likely be close to what he makes.

Weber's cap hit was 5 million less than what the team paid him in his first few years.

If Weber signed a contract this year, after what Perry/Getzlaf got, his contract would be 8-9+ million

PK Subban looks like he'll be getting somewhere near 8.

Karlsson got how much in his early twenties? How much would he get at 27?

It's totally irrelevant, and the fact people want to argue dollar amounts compared to contracts signed pre-lockout, go nuts, it's entirely besides the point.

Sure. I won't put them in precise order because - well, I'm way too lazy to do that - and because it will just turn into a giant argument about tiny differences in ranking.

Here we go in no particular order. Defensemen generally better than Phaneuf:

Doughty
Keith
Subban
Seabrook
Weber
Suter
Chara
Pietrangelo
OEL
Letang
Karlsson

So, there's 11 for you. There might be one or two more, but it gets cloudy. It really depends on what you want to go back and look at. If you want to include Phaneuf's career years in Calgary, they're as good as any. Whatever. That's firmly in the 10-15 range.

Defensemen who are better than Phaneuf this year:

Keith
Suter
OEL
Subban
Pietrangelo
Doughty
Karlsson if you're really into point production.
- Leeman4Gilmour

Jbo playing MUCH better this year

Seabrook too

Kronwall too

Your list is devoid of cold hard facts and is purely subjective.

Situation he's in kinda helps
- Big_Lightnin

He helps the situation

Jbo playing MUCH better this year

Seabrook too

Kronwall too

Your list is devoid of cold hard facts and is purely subjective.
- robin_steele264

He helps the situation
- robin_steele264

Swap Dion for Jbo all year And Phaneuf would easily have far better numbers than Jbo.

Sure. I won't put them in precise order because - well, I'm way too lazy to do that - and because it will just turn into a giant argument about tiny differences in ranking.

Here we go in no particular order. Defensemen generally better than Phaneuf:

Doughty
Keith
Subban
Seabrook
Weber
Suter
Chara
Pietrangelo
OEL
Letang
Karlsson

So, there's 11 for you. There might be one or two more, but it gets cloudy. It really depends on what you want to go back and look at. If you want to include Phaneuf's career years in Calgary, they're as good as any. Whatever. That's firmly in the 10-15 range.

Defensemen who are better than Phaneuf this year:

Keith
Suter
OEL
Subban
Pietrangelo
Doughty
Karlsson if you're really into point production.
- Leeman4Gilmour

If were still going to be super big into 'looking up the numbers'.. Dion is 41st in defensive scoring..

Swap Dion for Jayne all year And ohaneuf would easily have far better numbers than Jbo.
- Big_Lightnin

And Leaf fans would laugh their asses off if someone suggested Dion was the better player.

And Leaf fans would laugh their asses off if someone suggested Dion was the better player.


- robin_steele264

Pretty sure I just did, cause he is

Jbo playing MUCH better this year

Seabrook too

Kronwall too

Your list is devoid of cold hard facts and is purely subjective.
- robin_steele264

Seabrook and Keith play as a pairing. Of course they're going to look make each other look better. Keith is carrying the pairing right now, though.

Seabrook plays a full 3 minutes less than Phaneuf and a minute and a half less PK time per game. I think Phaneuf would be excelling in that role, too.

I'll give you Kronwall. He's playing very well.

JBo is the product of a great system, and even then, his numbers are very similar to Phaneuf's. Phaneuf gets the edge for playing in worse circumstances.

That still puts Phaneuf in the top 10 this year.

Pretty sure I just did, cause he is
- Big_Lightnin

He's not.

But if Jbo was traded to the Leafs and Dion was never in the spotlight of Toronto I have a feeling his name would rarely ever come up in the 'elite dman' discussion.

Just a hunch

If were still going to be super big into 'looking up the numbers'.. Dion is 41st in defensive scoring..
- joel878

I'd say there's far more to the defensive side of the game than that.

Phaneuf finished 10th last year. Are you willing to concede his Norris ranking (11th) was roughly accurate?

I'm assuming not.

1. Suter
2. Doughty
3. Karlsson
4. Pietrangelo
5. Weber
6. Subban
7. Keith
8. McDonagh
9. Seabrook
10. Bouwmeester
11. Markov
12. Staal
13. Vlasic
14. Letang
15. Shattenkirk
16. Orpik
17. Phaneuf

Edit: 30 teams is Dion in top 30? Yes. Top pairing dman? Yes. 7x8
- Pikey Fan

14 - terrible at defense
6 - also not good at defense
8 - traded for Gomez

Seabrook and Keith play as a pairing. Of course they're going to look make each other look better. Keith is carrying the pairing right now, though.

Seabrook plays a full 3 minutes less than Phaneuf and a minute and a half less PK time per game. I think Phaneuf would be excelling in that role, too.

I'll give you Kronwall. He's playing very well.

JBo is the product of a great system, and even then, his numbers are very similar to Phaneuf's. Phaneuf gets the edge for playing in worse circumstances.

That still puts Phaneuf in the top 10 this year.
- Leeman4Gilmour

Yes... he's top 10 on your list that you made.

I just give the cold, hard facts.

What people choose to do with them is their business. I'm not here to convert unbelievers.

The numbers are what they are.
- Leeman4Gilmour

You actually gave no facts, just an opinion.

He's not.

But if Jbo was traded to the Leafs and Dion was never in the spotlight of Toronto I have a feeling his name would rarely ever come up in the 'elite dman' discussion.

Just a hunch
- robin_steele264

I have a hunch it would be just the opposite.

JBo is finally out of a Canadian market and back in the states and his numbers (and reputation) have recovered.

Yes... he's top 10 on your list that you made.
- robin_steele264

Yes, a list you collaborated on. You had 3 suggested additions. I gave you one and challenged the other two with facts.

I'll even give you another and Phaneuf is still in the top 10.

I have a hunch it would be just the opposite.

JBo is finally out of a Canadian market and back in the states and his numbers (and reputation) have recovered.
- Leeman4Gilmour

His play has improved greatly.

Even his last year with calgary I couldnt get over how he was just all over the ice.

Guy's skating and mobility is as good as it gets

Yes, a list you collaborated on. You had 3 suggested additions. I gave you one and challenged the other two with facts.

I'll even give you another and Phaneuf is still in the top 10.
- Leeman4Gilmour

Don't say that to Mirtle.


He gets pissy when he wants to slander Dion

Yes, a list you collaborated on. You had 3 suggested additions. I gave you one and challenged the other two with facts.

I'll even give you another and Phaneuf is still in the top 10.
- Leeman4Gilmour

LOL... yes we made that together

Guys who are playing way better get canceled out cause their team is good though.