Possible, because the floor rises, too. So teams like Florida will drive up prices on mid level guys because they need to reach the floor.
- Jsaquella

That's why we do them a favor and let them have Streit. And they say Philadelphia isn't friendly. Bah!

we are fortunate to have 2 teams that will continue to spend to pushing the cap ceiling at least.
- stayinthefnnet

Yep. It's the blessing & curse of Snider. Money is not an object...but there's no patience

No I definitely don't think its the "C".

More than anything I think its being the face of the franchise, with very little supporting cast. From top to bottom. It got to him. That and I think the injuries to his hands over the last few years have taken a toll. His hands were what made him special, your boy Crosby had a role in those injuries.

The Flyers need to stick by their guy.
- flyer_nutter

as they should. he is a top level guy. you tweak around him, not vice versa.

haha do we really need to go down that route? besides, he certainly looks healthy enough. every now and then he will flash an amazing pass that he used to do with much more consistency. its not a matter of not physically being able to make them. it mostly been the fact that they really havent been there to make, and he is having a hard time creating something out of nothing right now

Yep. It's the blessing & curse of Snider. Money is not an object...but there's no patience
- Jsaquella

no, there isnt. but in some respect, its hard to blame him. the fans likely wouldnt show much patience. although i give them credit, theyd likely still come out to the arena in droves, which as an owner thats really the bottom line.

not being crude or anything, but he might be reaching a point where his own age is an issue for him. he wants to get in as many competitive seasons before he either goes or mentally loses touch.

That's why we do them a favor and let them have Streit. And they say Philadelphia isn't friendly. Bah!
- wolfhounds

any gm that takes that contract should be fired haha its not even one of those sheister ones is it? where a team could acquire him and say have him count for 5 on the cap but only actually owe him say 2?

They also made it to those finals with a very inconsistent season, and had to win game 82 with a shootout.

Call me crazy, but I think the biggest issue with that Carter/Richards era aside from goaltending was putting too much weight on the shoulders of players best suited to secondary roles. Much like what it happening now.

As for bSchenn, I've listed a few times on here that I don't really see him as a core guy going forward but that's just me. I would be in favour of Phaneuf, but only if they go after say a guy like Edler out in Vancouver. Much like Giroux needs support up front, Phaneuf will need support on the back end, on be put in a position he will be bound to fail in.
- flyer_nutter

They also sandwiched 90 & 100+ point seasons in there, too.

The problems no come from a bad mix of players. There's talent on this team, but it's not a good mix. the pieces don't fit well. A guy like Nicklas Grossmann is great, but when you have 4 of him, it's a bad idea.


As for Phaneuf, they could add Subban or OEL and they'd need to add another piece. They need support no matter what they do on defense, Nobody's saying Phaneuf alone fixes things, but you get Phaneuf without trading assets and then you can make a trade to get another defenseman.

It's like with Laviolette. I called for him to be fired, but never did I mean that it would magically fix things. It's one step towards improving. Adding Phaneuf would be one step.

as they should. he is a top level guy. you tweak around him, not vice versa.

haha do we really need to go down that route? besides, he certainly looks healthy enough. every now and then he will flash an amazing pass that he used to do with much more consistency. its not a matter of not physically being able to make them. it mostly been the fact that they really havent been there to make, and he is having a hard time creating something out of nothing right now
- stayinthefnnet

I'll definitely agree with that. You have Hartnell being a complete black hole, and Voracek looking more like that Jake he was in Columbus.

Honestly when LeCavalier comes back, I would just put him up front with Giroux and Read. Which unfortunately will leave the rest of the lineup as a joke, but that should fall on the head of the genius who put the team together.

Yep. It's the blessing & curse of Snider. Money is not an object...but there's no patience
- Jsaquella

i think our core is sadly overhyped. Look at the hawks - Seabrook, Kieth, Toews, Hossa, Sharp, Kane. Thats their core. What do we have? B Schenn, Couts, Jake and don't get me started on the D... none of these guys compare other than Giroux. Honestly I think this team is in trouble if they can't upgrade their 'core'

They also sandwiched 90 & 100+ point seasons in there, too.

The problems no come from a bad mix of players. There's talent on this team, but it's not a good mix. the pieces don't fit well. A guy like Nicklas Grossmann is great, but when you have 4 of him, it's a bad idea.


As for Phaneuf, they could add Subban or OEL and they'd need to add another piece. They need support no matter what they do on defense, Nobody's saying Phaneuf alone fixes things, but you get Phaneuf without trading assets and then you can make a trade to get another defenseman.

It's like with Laviolette. I called for him to be fired, but never did I mean that it would magically fix things. It's one step towards improving. Adding Phaneuf would be one step.
- Jsaquella

I'd agree with it being a first step then for sure.

As for talent with the current crew, I would disagree though. I think that talent overall is lacking, and it really showed when LeCavalier was their best forward on many nights. The guy brought in externally and aging himself.

I don't think the talent is there. I think at its core, that is what is fundamentally lacking with the team. Not all the pieces are trash, but a lot of them need to be replaced.

I'll definitely agree with that. You have Hartnell being a complete black hole, and Voracek looking more like that Jake he was in Columbus.

Honestly when LeCavalier comes back, I would just put him up front with Giroux and Read. Which unfortunately will leave the rest of the lineup as a joke, but that should fall on the head of the genius who put the team together.
- flyer_nutter

hartnell, for all his heart and soul, is much more of a problem for you guys than a solution.

i think our core is sadly overhyped. Look at the hawks - Seabrook, Kieth, Toews, Hossa, Sharp, Kane. Thats their core. What do we have? B Schenn, Couts, Jake and don't get me started on the D... none of these guys compare other than Giroux. Honestly I think this team is in trouble if they can't upgrade their 'core'
- moylander

The big issue here. Its the core of a team that makes it go. You need support, but that core is the foundation.

The core on this team is built on Giroux, Voracek and a kid in Couturier who you pray continues to develop an offensive game.

I say again, and will stand by it. Compare the lineup to the other teams in the league, and the top teams especially. They are where they are for a reason.

Compare the core, more than anything else. Including d-men. Its pretty (frank)ing bad.

any gm that takes that contract should be fired haha its not even one of those sheister ones is it? where a team could acquire him and say have him count for 5 on the cap but only actually owe him say 2?
- stayinthefnnet

Clearly we're not going to use you as a reference on the deal...

i think our core is sadly overhyped. Look at the hawks - Seabrook, Kieth, Toews, Hossa, Sharp, Kane. Thats their core. What do we have? B Schenn, Couts, Jake and don't get me started on the D... none of these guys compare other than Giroux. Honestly I think this team is in trouble if they can't upgrade their 'core'
- moylander

to be fair, there isnt exactly another core that comes close to that in the league. im not saying you guys dont have some work to do, but that is indeed a lofty measuring stick

i think our core is sadly overhyped. Look at the hawks - Seabrook, Kieth, Toews, Hossa, Sharp, Kane. Thats their core. What do we have? B Schenn, Couts, Jake and don't get me started on the D... none of these guys compare other than Giroux. Honestly I think this team is in trouble if they can't upgrade their 'core'
- moylander

Well, the thing is, the Hawks core is spread out up front and on defense.

The other issue is, the 22 year old Schenn & the 21 year old Couturier are still developing and they're not in a great environment, because the shortcomings of the support around them

They also sandwiched 90 & 100+ point seasons in there, too.

The problems no come from a bad mix of players. There's talent on this team, but it's not a good mix. the pieces don't fit well. A guy like Nicklas Grossmann is great, but when you have 4 of him, it's a bad idea.


As for Phaneuf, they could add Subban or OEL and they'd need to add another piece. They need support no matter what they do on defense, Nobody's saying Phaneuf alone fixes things, but you get Phaneuf without trading assets and then you can make a trade to get another defenseman.

It's like with Laviolette. I called for him to be fired, but never did I mean that it would magically fix things. It's one step towards improving. Adding Phaneuf would be one step.
- Jsaquella

i really do think it has to be the mix. when i go up and down this roster, there really arent a whole lot of "yucks" to me. most even have pretty darn reasonable contracts. but it really does seem to me that it is a lot of the same. the grossman example is a great one. he is awesome at what he does. but most of your defenders are in that same vein. i love what simmonds brings. but him and hartnell are pretty redundant as well.

to be fair, there isnt exactly another core that comes close to that in the league. im not saying you guys dont have some work to do, but that is indeed a lofty measuring stick
- stayinthefnnet

Its not just Chicago though.

Compare the offensive and defensive core players to those of say Boston, Colorado, Detriot, LA, Minny, Montreal, Nashville, Pittsburgh, San Jose, St Louis, etc.

I think the core of many teams is what makes them go. That's where standings come into play for me. Where the Flyers are, are a little above where I would rank their core.

The amazing goaltending has helped mask more of the issues on the current team, as has the d-first style.

Well, the thing is, the Hawks core is spread out up front and on defense.

The other issue is, the 22 year old Schenn & the 21 year old Couturier are still developing and they're not in a great environment, because the shortcomings of the support around them
- Jsaquella

yeah, i would give them each another 2 years (i know that is a long while as a fan, but still) before you can really come to a proper evaluation of either player

I'd agree with it being a first step then for sure.

As for talent with the current crew, I would disagree though. I think that talent overall is lacking, and it really showed when LeCavalier was their best forward on many nights. The guy brought in externally and aging himself.

I don't think the talent is there. I think at its core, that is what is fundamentally lacking with the team. Not all the pieces are trash, but a lot of them need to be replaced.
- flyer_nutter

Lecavalier is a former MVP, and is hardly ancient at age 33.

The problem is, that with the inability of the defense to provide any help in transition, the offense simply won't be there. When they had a halfway decent transition defense, Giroux had 93 points, Hartnell scored 37 goals, Voracek, Read and Simmonds all scored near or above 20 goals.

When you can't move the puck up ice well, you don't get sustained attack time and you waste a ton of energy outside of the offensive zone. That's the big reason the "core" seems less talented.

anyone show up tonight besides Simmonds?
- FlyerGuy

yeah voracek scored and then handed them a shorthanded goal so he was there. another guy who's skill has basically evaporated before our eyes, while michael handzus and versteeg are playing pretty well. i swear i'll never get sick of that

Its not just Chicago though.

Compare the offensive and defensive core players to those of say Boston, Colorado, Detriot, LA, Minny, Montreal, Nashville, Pittsburgh, San Jose, St Louis, etc.

I think the core of many teams is what makes them go. That's where standings come into play for me. Where the Flyers are, are a little above where I would rank their core.

The amazing goaltending has helped mask more of the issues on the current team, as has the d-first style.
- flyer_nutter

detroit are the atlanta braves of the nhl. it doesnt matter who, what, how. they will pump out a competitive team. colorado is still a few years away from really making a splash, and have to hope that they dont become like the oilers with their gang of flashy young studs. yes, minnesota caught 2 big fish last year, but i dont see them as leaps and bounds talent wise about the flyers. same with montreal, or even nashville. st louis is quietly one of the best top to bottom teams in the league, ill definitely agree there

yeah, i would give them each another 2 years (i know that is a long while as a fan, but still) before you can really come to a proper evaluation of either player
- stayinthefnnet

My biggest knock on bSchenn is he doesn't seem to really excel in a certain area. He doesn't really initiate.

Another big issue is the penalties. Its a joke for a team that isn't even that physical on most nights. The fourth line being another. Every player matters in the NHL. Players who have a rats ass chance in scoring shouldn't play, even if they don't hurt the team.

Too many Nodl's Pyorala's, and Raffl's in recent years. You need guys that actually excel in certain areas, not just "meh" players. That's one thing, but to not even be able to ice a decent fourth line that wont hurt you, when you have the money Holmgren has. Is ridiculous.

Its not just Chicago though.

Compare the offensive and defensive core players to those of say Boston, Colorado, Detriot, LA, Minny, Montreal, Nashville, Pittsburgh, San Jose, St Louis, etc.

I think the core of many teams is what makes them go. That's where standings come into play for me. Where the Flyers are, are a little above where I would rank their core.

The amazing goaltending has helped mask more of the issues on the current team, as has the d-first style.
- flyer_nutter

Its a shame we did not trade Read/Coby for Bobby Ryan and Couts+ for Subban back when we had a chance for both of them. At least then I could say we have at least 3 core players in Roo, PK and Ryan.

Lecavalier is a former MVP, and is hardly ancient at age 33.

The problem is, that with the inability of the defense to provide any help in transition, the offense simply won't be there. When they had a halfway decent transition defense, Giroux had 93 points, Hartnell scored 37 goals, Voracek, Read and Simmonds all scored near or above 20 goals.

When you can't move the puck up ice well, you don't get sustained attack time and you waste a ton of energy outside of the offensive zone. That's the big reason the "core" seems less talented.
- Jsaquella

yup. i feel like this has been a huge issue for the last 2 seasons for you guys. for as great as grossman is at what he does, this will never be it. and when most of your dmen are of that type, it wont be pretty. you can have all of the offensive guys you want, but you still need guys to help transition the zone and turn those ponies loose

i really do think it has to be the mix. when i go up and down this roster, there really arent a whole lot of "yucks" to me. most even have pretty darn reasonable contracts. but it really does seem to me that it is a lot of the same. the grossman example is a great one. he is awesome at what he does. but most of your defenders are in that same vein. i love what simmonds brings. but him and hartnell are pretty redundant as well.
- stayinthefnnet

The defense is a black hole. They're slow, stupid and not especially good at moving the puck, especially when an opposing team gets a good forecheck going.

You then have to rely on the forwards to do more, and that kills the attack time and wastes a lot of energy.

If I could trade Simmonds for Kulikov, right now, it'd be done in a heartbeat.

Watching NHL Rivalries Flyers/Hawks is so depressing. I love this team and would give anything to see them win a Cup but somehow they either come out last or second best in a lot of ways. The connection of Keenan, Sharp and Kane is painful. It all just seems like it all sets up perfectly for huge Loss. It stings so much...