and then you have an equal(actually, possibly harder) force whacking him from the opposite direction when his helmet hits the ice. That's a lot of back-and-forth for the brain to be doing.
- Feeling Glucky?

Very true.

Ranger
- Yeti1181

So trash. No idea how people continue to give him the benefit of the doubt while he hasnt improved at all

I respectfully disagree
- Yeti1181

People can disagree like I said in my first post on the subject. I don't think he is worth what he will be paid and I fear we will see complacency in his game big time.

the fact is i look at this leafs lineup and see what i saw in 2001-2002.. a good team that isnt quite good enough.

one HUGE difference tho

they are far younger... the offensive talent is in place but the D is just not up to snuff. now that the forwards are pretty much all under contract its time to rebuild this D properly.. which means not over paying for ANYONE

even if it hurts over the next couple seasons it will be worth it in 3 or 4 years.

if its done right.. we are looking at a leafs team who will have its core all around the age of 30 when they are truly ready to compete.

this is what Nonis should be looking at.. guys like phaneuf, and franson do not bring enough to the table for the salaries they will command.. so move them.

we waited years for the franchise to be rebuilt.. lets not set it back half a decade by making the same mistakes that were made 11-12 years ago.
- Dozzer

While I agree with what you are saying, I just can't see how any player in this market who gets top pairing minutes, with PP and PK time won't be demanding a big pay cheque. Only if you are lucky enough to get guys on Entry level deals, or who are handcuffed as RFAs... and good luck finding those guys readily available.

rather nonis start a complete rebuild of the D while the forward core is still young enough to endure it without becoming old men themselves
- Dozzer

We are not becoming the oilers dammit

So trash. No idea how people continue to give him the benefit of the doubt while he hasnt improved at all
- jbold

We were agreeing so well up till now.

Thats Dion's group....He's a 5mil D-man
- Fruitcakenipple

Based on what? Being better than all those guys? Facing other team's top players night in and night out with little back-up, and still doing a great- and that word is justified there- job against them, while still putting up points?

If he was on any other team, we'd be clamoring about how he's the type of guy we need. Physical two-way dman capable of playing big minutes every night.

Don't get rid of him. Get him someone to play with.

Very true.
- Yeti1181

inertia's a female dog.

Based on what? Being better than all those guys? Facing other team's top players night in and night out with little back-up, and still doing a great- and that word is justified there- job against them, while still putting up points?

If he was on any other team, we'd be clamoring about how he's the type of guy we need. Physical two-way dman capable of playing big minutes every night.

Don't get rid of him. Get him someone to play with.
- Feeling Glucky?

I was just trying to get jbold going.......

He falls somewhere between 10-15 IMO. And really all those players are really close. There's only a few that truly separate themselves from him. Doughty, Chara, Subban, Keith, Petriangelo, Weber are the names that come to mind that are in a different class but not many more.
- iTOLDu

Took a quick look and I'd say that's pretty close. Looks like there are 10-12 that are clearly the best then a group of 10-20 that are all debatable but slide in behind those first 10. I'd say he's anywhere from 12 - 30 depending on your bias and preferences.

Either way he's a #1 guy. And Leafman, I don't disagree about his warts. When he's playing poorly he looks lazy and slow to react. And I'm concerned that he's having his best year (as a Leaf) in a contract year. THat being said signing him will take a lot of pressure off Gardiner and Rielly and let them develop more slowly.

People can disagree like I said in my first post on the subject. I don't think he is worth what he will be paid and I fear we will see complacency in his game big time.
- LeafMan

I don't think we will see complancey though as we haven't seen it yet.

People can disagree like I said in my first post on the subject. I don't think he is worth what he will be paid and I fear we will see complacency in his game big time.
- LeafMan

Do you really see him as the type of guy to take his money and go home?

We are not becoming the oilers dammit
- Yeti1181

We are the oilers on the back end...Both teams have the same prob...No D

People can disagree like I said in my first post on the subject. I don't think he is worth what he will be paid and I fear we will see complacency in his game big time.
- LeafMan

I disrespectfully disagree.... ...jerk.

I was just trying to get jbold going.......
- Fruitcakenipple

dammit

I was thinking of throwing a UG comment in there. Good thing i didn't.

I\ll enjoy watching him shutdown teams top lines like usual.
- jbold

so far this year toronto has allowed 85 goals against

phaneuf has been on the ice for 41 of them

dammit

I was thinking of throwing a UG comment in there. Good thing i didn't.
- Feeling Glucky?

People can disagree like I said in my first post on the subject. I don't think he is worth what he will be paid and I fear we will see complacency in his game big time.
- LeafMan

Walks like a number 1, talks, like a number 1, paid like a number 1, plays as much as a number 1, hes probably a number 1.

We are the oilers on the back end...Both teams have the same prob...No D
- Fruitcakenipple

At least we have the number 1 d and can start from there.

so far this year toronto has allowed 85 goals against

phaneuf has been on the ice for 41 of them
- Dozzer

That seems about right since he's playing half the game.

so far this year toronto has allowed 85 goals against

phaneuf has been on the ice for 41 of them
- Dozzer

Jesus thats brutal.....

No way.

Those guys are plain bad and shouldnt be making that kind of money. They're a lot worse than Dion in their on end.
- jbold

Correct.

nd while we can sit and sadly reflect upon Dion getting blown past by Lucic, I'm struggling to think of many Shutdown D-men who are known for their foot speed... Most seem to rely on big body, and long stick.

While I agree with what you are saying, I just can't see how any player in this market who gets top pairing minutes, with PP and PK time won't be demanding a big pay cheque. Only if you are lucky enough to get guys on Entry level deals, or who are handcuffed as RFAs... and good luck finding those guys readily available.
- vermie22

phaneuf isnt that good.. he really isnt

he supposed to be our best shutdown D yet he has been on the ice for more goals against than any other leafs d-man

there is better for the money he will want. why handcuff yourself just to get by? its not smart management

Correct.

nd while we can sit and sadly reflect upon Dion getting blown past by Lucic, I'm struggling to think of many Shutdown D-men who are known for their foot speed... Most seem to rely on big body, and long stick.
- lumlums

7+ mil for a shut down defender is a massive over payment..

Looked like he barely hit Orpik to me. Seemed like a lot of BS, getting the stretcher out for that.. Over done if you ask me. But what do I know.
- bixll

the elbow pad hit him in the chin followed by a punch, thats what did it, was the elbow.

hit him right on the button = ko.