And if enough teams fail, then the market would inevitably correct itself, with regard to salaries paid and franchise values -- players would take less in order to keep jobs.

It's always been a balancing act to maintain the viability of sports leagues and teams. But the answer isn't to artificially prop up the Atlantas of the world. The answer is to first find 30 markets that have 15,000-18,000 willing ticket buyers, every year, rain or shine.

The NHL will be fine as long as it identifies those markets -- and there are 30 of them in North America. I have absolutely no doubt of that.
- AllInForFlyers

I have a very hard time thinking of even a dozen or so strong markets in NA that have both enough fan-interest and corporate support to provide stability for an NHL franchise. Out of that dozen, a few are still what I would consider softer markets, as in the support will go as soon as the winning stops.

If Rinaldo never played another game for the Flyers it would be fine with me.

The guy cannot be trusted. He's stupid waiting to happen. I can't stand players like that.
- Scoob

I thought we were looking to get that guy more minutes

Doc retired. Called that poop

I thought we were looking to get that guy more minutes
- funmaster18

You're a game behind...

Poor Vinny. We've really missed him. I was disheartened to hear that he'll be out for the rest of the month. I hope he heals quickly and gets back to us soon. We need his scoring touch and his presence in the locker room. I'd sit Mez and bring in Gill for that locker room leadership alone...
It would be nice if the top line would start dominating again... Seems like the only time they are on the sheet is during a PP goal. Which I'll take. But it's frustrating to watch them play so poorly 5 on 5...
- FlyersGrace

I'm taking it as a good thing in an odd way that his back is broken. The bone will heal and be good as new. A disk is never really 100% again. Just don't rush him back!

5 games for Neal.
- PLindbergh31

Not enough. The guy is a cheap-shotting punk.

Can't remember who was arguing with me the other day about the flyers not having enough to pay phaneuf $7-7.5 million...


Dreger just said the cap should go up to $70-71 million next season. More than enough to re-sign Mason, B Schenn, Downie, and Phaneuf at $7.5 million
- moylander

I brought that up and I am more than ok with this piece of info right here

You're a game behind...

- FlyersGrace

Did the flyers play a game on Saturday?

The Flyers weren't a earner in the early years... they were a weak-sister franchise, a foolhardy experiment... just like hockey in the desert and hockey in Florida seems to us now.

Not all the experiments are going to work, but you have to give them every opportunity to do so, and hope that the league will be stronger overall for them.
- Tomahawk

It took the Flyers about 7 years to get it going. How long should struggling teams be given?

I'm taking it as a good thing in an odd way that his back is broken. The bone will heal and be good as new. A disk is never really 100% again. Just don't rush him back!
- bodiva88

Yeah backs can be scary. We have a good friend who has had 27 spinal procedures... Lives in constant pain.

He is 18. Geez what do you have to do besides have a 4 point night to get some credit.
- youarewrong

Like I said...he played a great 1:30 stretch. Other than that, I didn't notice him much aside from his size.

I thought we were looking to get that guy more minutes
- funmaster18

I am. On another team.

Did the flyers play a game on Saturday?
- funmaster18

4 seconds for him to get tossed. FOUR SECONDS.
Impressive.

He deserves every one of them
- BiggE

I was hoping they'd give him 10 or 12

I was hoping they'd give him 10 or 12
- mayorofangrytown

Thornton will get that.

He deserves every one of them
- BiggE

And a whole lot more. What a horrible thing to do. And not a heat of the moment or heat of the play thing either. Purely cold-headed premeditation.

4 seconds for him to get tossed. FOUR SECONDS.
Impressive.
- FlyersGrace

More PIM than minutes played is impressive. More PIM than SECONDS played is otherworldly.

Rinaldo's PIM/per 60 minutes Saturday was 6,300.

I have a very hard time thinking of even a dozen or so strong markets in NA that have both enough fan-interest and corporate support to provide stability for an NHL franchise. Out of that dozen, a few are still what I would consider softer markets, as in the support will go as soon as the winning stops.
- Tomahawk

But that's no different than it's ever been, in many cases -- the NBA's a prime example of that.

They sell themselves better, but take an objective look at that league:

The Sacramento Kings...were the Kansas City Kings in the 1980s.
The Utah Jazz...were the New Orleans Jazz in the 1980s.
The Los Angeles Lakers...were really in Minnesota, once upon a time.
The Los Angeles Clippers...were the San Diego Clippers.

The New Jersey Nets no longer exist. The Seattle SuperSonics no longer exist.

You can do the same things with the NFL and MLB -- there hasn't been an NFL team in Los Angeles for 20 years now...and they once had two teams.

What can't happen is that you can't manage a league based on the fear of the weaker markets not existing. At some point, the weaker markets have to do what it takes to become strong markets, as you correctly noted the Flyers did.

For instance: Florida continues to try to tank, draft well, and win. But...it isn't working.

There's no law saying that trading picks doesn't work. There's no law saying free agency doesn't work -- the best players in Panthers history weren't guys they drafted. They were guys they traded for.

The correlation between poor markets and losing goes hand-in-hand. Atlanta probably would've worked...if they had made the playoffs more than once in 12 years.

Thornton will get that.
- FlyersGrace

I'm still not even sure how Orpik got hurt and I've seen the replay a ton of times.

I'm still not even sure how Orpik got hurt and I've seen the replay a ton of times.
- mayorofangrytown

His head hit the ice.

And a whole lot more. What a horrible thing to do. And not a heat of the moment or heat of the play thing either. Purely cold-headed premeditation.
- bodiva88

Notice he went to the bench right after. He knew his shift was over yet didn't take the shortest distance to the bench. Went out of his way to deliver the knee. Such a punk.

And a whole lot more. What a horrible thing to do. And not a heat of the moment or heat of the play thing either. Purely cold-headed premeditation.
- bodiva88

Should have gotten double digits.

He should be suspended into next 2014 and miss his game outside.

More PIM than minutes played is impressive. More PIM than SECONDS played is otherworldly.

Rinaldo's PIM/per 60 minutes Saturday was 6,300.
- Jsaquella

Can't breathe...

Thanks for this!

Notice he went to the bench right after. He knew his shift was over yet didn't take the shortest distance to the bench. Went out of his way to deliver the knee. Such a punk.
- Scoob

I thought he skated off to make sure he wasn't on the ice for repercussions!

Pens thread discussing why Rinaldo should have been suspended for his idiocy on Sat...