Aside from Holmstrom, none of those guys are ideal 4th-line players, though.
- Tomahawk

I think Raffl's game is ideal for the 4th line role.
He can skate, forecheck, has some size, positionally good and can play PK.

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't put all the blame on Berube for playing the knuckleheads considering that Homer has given him nothing but a poop buffet to choose from.
- Tomahawk

No doubt about that. The perils of trading a multitude of picks for quick fixes. A barren pipeline.

Flyers top prospect are years away.

Yes sir Peanut. It seems as if there is a double standard. Players you mention struggle and they are benched, or see their ice time cut, yet mongoloids like Rinaldo and Rosehill are allowed to run amuck. It's dumb. I wonder if it has anything to do with Berube being sympathetic to the goon role.

Unleash!
- PLindbergh31

Or, the Defense has NHL-ready players sitting, so if someone slips on defense it is easier for Berube to get them ice-time.

More immune to being benched then who? Raffl? A first year player that doesn't have a goal and while he looks pretty sometime, also takes risks that someone in his position shouldn't. I haven't been impressed with what I saw from Holmstom either. Rinaldo and Rosehill are 4th line players with NHL experience. Would it be nice to have better options, sure. But Holmstrom isn't much of an improvement.
- youarewrong

An actual player, who can play on the PK and stay out of the box is better than what Rinaldo or Rosehill is giving the team right now.

Or, the Defense has NHL-ready players sitting, so if someone slips on defense it is easier for Berube to get them ice-time.
- youarewrong

Hal Gill isn't really an NHL ready player. He's a breathing cigar store Indian.

I think Raffl's game is ideal for the 4th line role.
He can skate, forecheck, has some size, positionally good and can play PK.
- Marc D

I think he is too eratic in his play. Takes too many chances, and roves too much to be a 4th line player. You have to remember who he is playing with. For every good play Raffl makes, he is likely to make a poor one. Do you thing Hall or Rinaldo or Rosehill or McGinn are going to be able to recover from a Raffl turn-over, or realize Raffl is skating out of postion and to cover his zone. It would be chaos on the 4th line, when you want stability and aggression.

Flyers wouldnt have any energy line. And I'm sorry, if you think a like of Holmstom, Hall, and Newberry is going to be any better, your wrong. Sure they might play a bit of a tighter defensive game, but they arent going to bring anything else that Rosehill and Rinaldo bring, plus they will still be prone to rookie mistakes and adjusting to NHL play.
- youarewrong

No, they can actually play 10 minutes a night and avoid moronic penalties, which allows the other lines to get rested. It also means in case of injury, you have guys who can slide up and play more minutes.

To me that's better than an enforcer and a an out of control meat head who is more likely to get called for a penalty than to draw one.

Hal Gill isn't really an NHL ready player. He's a breathing cigar store Indian.
- PLindbergh31

He played very well in the games he was brought in for. Very well.

No doubt about that. The perils of trading a multitude of picks for quick fixes. A barren pipeline.

Flyers top prospect are years away.
- PLindbergh31

I'd love to pick up a useful and experienced 4th-line guy like Erik Condra (PK-maven), Matt Hendricks (SO-maven), Ryan Jones, etc.

I think he is too eratic in his play. Takes too many chances, and roves too much to be a 4th line player. You have to remember who he is playing with. For every good play Raffl makes, he is likely to make a poor one. Do you thing Hall or Rinaldo or Rosehill or McGinn are going to be able to recover from a Raffl turn-over, or realize Raffl is skating out of postion and to cover his zone. It would be chaos on the 4th line, when you want stability and aggression.
- youarewrong

He's playing in a scoring line role, so he's encouraged to press the offense and attempt to score. If he's used in a checking line role, he'll be fine.

You think Raffl is too erratic in his play, and defend Rinaldo, who is the epitome of erratic?

No, they can actually play 10 minutes a night and avoid moronic penalties, which allows the other lines to get rested. It also means in case of injury, you have guys who can slide up and play more minutes.

To me that's better than an enforcer and a an out of control meat head who is more likely to get called for a penalty than to draw one.
- Jsaquella

I dont think this team can afford to give thier 4th line 10 minutes a night. They can barely produce with the minutes they are given now... And you want to take TOI away from them?

Or, the Defense has NHL-ready players sitting, so if someone slips on defense it is easier for Berube to get them ice-time.
- youarewrong

I've been busy banging on the "Move Mark Streit to Forward" drum all season... he did in in MTL, he did it in Switzerland... he can do it again. Get Rosehill out of the lineup, and bring Gus in.

I'd love to pick up a useful and experienced 4th-line guy like Erik Condra (PK-maven), Matt Hendricks (SO-maven), Ryan Jones, etc.
- Tomahawk

I wonder what the cost would be for players of that ilk. I don't want Holmgren dealing any picks for band-aids.

I wonder what the cost would be for players of that ilk. I don't want Holmgren dealing any picks for band-aids.
- PLindbergh31

Jones was just on waivers not too long ago... Condra and Hendricks would cost very very little.

I'd love to pick up a useful and experienced 4th-line guy like Erik Condra (PK-maven), Matt Hendricks (SO-maven), Ryan Jones, etc.
- Tomahawk

That's certainly doable, though. The Flyers have the notion that they need to play an enforcer and that Rinaldo is an effective player. Whether it's rep or dumb or a combination of both, Rinaldo has regressed from last season, where he was an effective pest.

He drew penalties, did a better job of avoiding unnecessary ones himself and was a solid guy. This year, he's drawn one penalty. He's been more prone to dumb play and he's not getting an inch of leeway, to boot.

He's playing in a scoring line role, so he's encouraged to press the offense and attempt to score. If he's used in a checking line role, he'll be fine.

You think Raffl is too erratic in his play, and defend Rinaldo, who is the epitome of erratic?
- Jsaquella

Rinaldo is actually very good in his positioning, and rarely take hooking, tripping, etc penalities. I'm more then OK with him on the 4th line.

He played very well in the games he was brought in for. Very well.
- youarewrong

Small sample size. If Gill was pressed into regular duty he would be exposed in a big way.

I dont think this team can afford to give thier 4th line 10 minutes a night. They can barely produce with the minutes they are given now... And you want to take TOI away from them?
- youarewrong

I think part of the issue is that they see too much ice time, and are spent by the third period.

The horrible transition game forces them to do more work, at both ends of the ice, and a lot of wasted effort and energy. Not having a reliable fourth line to take some of the minutes away causes them to wear down.

Look at the successful teams in the NHL. They all have fourth lines that play 8-10 minutes a night regularly.

Except for a handful of games, the Flyers have struggled to score all year. With that being said, I would significantly shake up the lines and lineup:
Foward lines
McGinn-G-Voracek
Hartnell-Couturier-Read
Downie-Schenn-Simmonds
Cousins-Hall-Raffl
D (assumes Timonen plays)
Coburn-Timonen
Grossmann-Gus
Schenn-Mez

Healthy scratches: Streit, Gill, Rinaldo
waived to make roster space: Rosehill

Rinaldo is actually very good in his positioning, and rarely take hooking, tripping, etc penalities. I'm more then OK with him on the 4th line.
- youarewrong

Actually, he runs around quite a bit. Even if he's not taking trips or hooks, he's still taking penalties and leaving the team in a bad spot. If he was doing what he did last season, I'd be more than happy to have him on the 4th line...but this year he's been a liability more than an asset.

That's certainly doable, though. The Flyers have the notion that they need to play an enforcer and that Rinaldo is an effective player. Whether it's rep or dumb or a combination of both, Rinaldo has regressed from last season, where he was an effective pest.

He drew penalties, did a better job of avoiding unnecessary ones himself and was a solid guy. This year, he's drawn one penalty. He's been more prone to dumb play and he's not getting an inch of leeway, to boot.
- Jsaquella

I agree with these 2 statements. I think a lot has to do with the way he is being called.. I think in order to get onto the PK (something he has tried for a long time) Lappy has asked him to stay out of the box as much. And IMO this has really effected his game. He no longer thows those big checks, and that is what made him effective. Just like Giroux can get off his game and not score, Rinaldo can get off his. You have to be patient with him, he is a good option on the 4th line. He is a great team player, and he is hungry for a bigger role, and works for it. Not much more then a Coach can ask for from a player.

The horrible transition game forces them to do more work, at both ends of the ice, and a lot of wasted effort and energy.
- Jsaquella

Really salient point. Flyers forwards have to do a LOT more skating to help out the D.

I think part of the issue is that they see too much ice time, and are spent by the third period.

The horrible transition game forces them to do more work, at both ends of the ice, and a lot of wasted effort and energy. Not having a reliable fourth line to take some of the minutes away causes them to wear down.

Look at the successful teams in the NHL. They all have fourth lines that play 8-10 minutes a night regularly.
- Jsaquella

Yea, or you could think of it as, the 4th line get 8-10 minutes because the team is actually up on the scoreboard and winning. Chicken or Egg syndrome.

I agree with these 2 statements. I think a lot has to do with the way he is being called.. I think in order to get onto the PK (something he has tried for a long time) Lappy has asked him to stay out of the box as much. And IMO this has really effected his game. He no longer thows those big checks, and that is what made him effective. Just like Giroux can get off his game and not score, Rinaldo can get off his. You have to be patient with him, he is a good option on the 4th line. He is a great team player, and he is hungry for a bigger role, and works for it. Not much more then a Coach can ask for from a player.
- youarewrong

Being a great team guy is wonderful, but when you're routinely putting the team shorthanded and not drawing any PPs for the team, you're not an effective energy player.

That's really the bottom line. If he's getting reputation calls against him, he has himself to blame, because he forged that rep. He's not a good possession player, he's not going to score much, so he needs to be agitating and strring the pot...if he's not doing that, he's pretty much a liability.

Really salient point. Flyers forwards have to do a LOT more skating to help out the D.
- Tomahawk

In theory wasn't the addition of Streit supposed to help moving the puck? Haven't seen much evidence of this.

He couldn't stick on the first PP unit, I'm not really seeing what his value is.