I know this is a joke, but would you?
- Jeffmt

As a Hawks fan would i do the trade? Yup.

*Offensively
- sbroads24

Doughty this year: +3
Subban this year: +9

Throw some of those fancy stats at me, I bet they are in PK's favour too.

I dont like PK. But he was more deserving of it than Karlsson. His game is more complete than Karlsson's. Karlsson is a one trick pony like Green in Wash. They just offensive dynamos. I get the feeling that PK wont make this Olympic team. But will be there for the next one. I think that between these games and the next ones he will most def mature so much more. He's still just to much to handle right now.
- poisondhearts37

He's a dynamic great player. No one can deny that. However people are kidding themselves to call him a complete player. He has major holes in his game defensively, in fact they were on display last night

You mean that nasty :44 seconds per game he kills penalties. Or how he is routinely on the bench in the last minute when the Habs have a lead.
- sbroads24

what are you talking about? what does this have to do with drawing the top assignments? those are special teams situations. don't post if you know nothing about hockey.

thing i don't get, if PK is as awful defensively as you all claim he is without watching him, how is it that he's constantly a plus player while drawing the top defensive assignment every night?
- DoubleDown

Cuz he takes chances offensively so that makes him terrible defensifely, even if he usully gets back to cover for his mistake.

Cause he's on the ice a lot and other players happen to score so he gets a plus... like yesterday when he almost cost the game by himself with a minute to go (so many times I saw him screw up late in a game to cost the game with a mistake or by getting a bad penalty!) with that stupid defensive goof! luckily for him, Desharnais I believe saved his ass!
- Raven33

Considering Karlsson is -4 and close to a PPG player, I'd say he (frank)s up more defensively than Subban does.

Doughty this year: +3
Subban this year: +9

Throw some of those fancy stats at me, I bet they are in PK's favour too.
- FinAddict

+/- is a fancy stat?

0 goals, 15 pts and a -1

I don't care how many minutes he logs... he won't be playing 35 minutes a night on team Canada.
- Pecafan Fan

Neither will pk

In fairness to suter he has to play in the west ...

Not sure giving up a skilled offensive player with significant untapped talent and not yet in his prime is worth an offensive defenseman with mediocre defensive skills. If Subban was a complete package D man I could see this being more of an even trade. But no. Doesn't make a lot of sense for Colorado.

what are you talking about? what does this have to do with drawing the top assignments? those are special teams situations. don't post if you know nothing about hockey.
- DoubleDown

So he is so damn good at killing penalties which in my book would be considered a "top defensive assignment" that they just don't have him do it. Riiiigghhht

Erik Karlsson>PK Subban. If Karlsson didnt have his injury last year, Subban would have been Norris runner up
- forbetterorWORSE

I dont even like Subban and I would take him over Karlsson. Because he is better defensively and will continue to be better at both ends of the ice. That alone is why id take him.

Also guys. It isnt that hard for these guys to be plus players when they have 70 points. Look at Mike Green in his hay day. When he scored all those points. There wasnt a worse defensive dman in the game and his plus minus was sky high.

+/- is a fancy stat?
- sbroads24

No, I was requesting corsi or fenwick or whatever the (frank) they're called

No. A Norris means that you were the top Dman for ONE year and therefore should never be used as an argument in evaluating top D-men overall. Randy Carlyle won the Norris, yet no one would ever rank him among the top defencemen in NHL history. When we debate the overall value of Subban, a one-year award should not mean anything.
- Alpamayo91


you have to stop posting. immediately.
- DoubleDown

Respect other people's opinions please. I don't make such comment on your posts.

Considering Karlsson is -4 and close to a PPG player, I'd say he (frank)s up more defensively than Subban does.
- Pecafan Fan

Ottawa has a negative goal differential, and Karlsson logs 30 mins a game. His -4 pretty much has very little to do with him, and much more to do with the Sens have 1 competent forward line right now.

+/- is dumb anyway.

you have to stop posting. immediately.
- DoubleDown

Just to be clear...every other player who achieved career high achievements in a shortened 48 game season are one-off anomolies...with the exception of PK Subban? He's not a lock - period. He is skilled no doubt, a very quality player with questionable character and at times is undisciplined - he'll be a future Team canada staple in my opinion, just not a lock this year considering what is out there.

Considering Karlsson is -4 and close to a PPG player, I'd say he (frank)s up more defensively than Subban does.
- Pecafan Fan

no, that's not how it works. the stats that make Subban look good do not count. Norris trophies that he wins do not count.

the only thing that counts is whatever makes him look bad.

sorry, my bad. that was all Chara.
- DoubleDown

Wow do you even watch hockey or only the habs? If you thik he wasnt a big reason why they made the finals, YOU should stop posting!!

I dont like PK. But he was more deserving of it than Karlsson. His game is more complete than Karlsson's. Karlsson is a one trick pony like Green in Wash. They just offensive dynamos. I get the feeling that PK wont make this Olympic team. But will be there for the next one. I think that between these games and the next ones he will most def mature so much more. He's still just to much to handle right now.
- poisondhearts37

WoW! another who comments just on highlights or looking at stats! typical! LOL
Karlsson was great defensively (pre-injury)! You don't need to make the big hit through the boards to be good defensively! When did Lidstrom destroy a guy with a check? Karlsson was the same, his incredible speed catching up to guys and great stick work was how he was great defensively!
Now he's still recovering from the injury and because of that lost some speed, so his defensive play has indeed taken a little hit while his offensive skill is still #1 in the league!

Ottawa has a negative goal differential, and Karlsson logs 30 mins a game. His -4 pretty much has very little to do with him, and much more to do with the Sens have 1 competent forward line right now.
- Talkshowhost

Stop with the facts.

Otherwise I could tell you how great "defensively" Thomas Vanek was in 06-07 with a +47

I dont even like Subban and I would take him over Karlsson. Because he is better defensively and will continue to be better at both ends of the ice. That alone is why id take him.

Also guys. It isnt that hard for these guys to be plus players when they have 70 points. Look at Mike Green in his hay day. When he scored all those points. There wasnt a worse defensive dman in the game and his plus minus was sky high.
- poisondhearts37

Karlsson>Subban

He's a dynamic great player. No one can deny that. However people are kidding themselves to call him a complete player. He has major holes in his game defensively, in fact they were on display last night
- sbroads24

Good on the (undetected) slew foot too...

Just to be clear...every other player who achieved career high achievements in a shortened 48 game season are one-off anomolies...with the exception of PK Subban? He's not a lock - period. He is skilled no doubt, a very quality player with questionable character and at times is undisciplined - he'll be a future Team canada staple in my opinion, just not a lock this year considering what is out there.
- Deeps27

career high? it was this third NHL season. difference between statistic anomaly and progression. and if it was a one off, why is he having such a strong year this year?

I dont even like Subban and I would take him over Karlsson. Because he is better defensively and will continue to be better at both ends of the ice. That alone is why id take him.

Also guys. It isnt that hard for these guys to be plus players when they have 70 points. Look at Mike Green in his hay day. When he scored all those points. There wasnt a worse defensive dman in the game and his plus minus was sky high.
- poisondhearts37

If I'm building a franchise, I'd take Doughty over Subban because of his resume and his consistency of being among the league's best defensemen every season.

If I have to win a game tomorrow based on the way they're playing right now I'd take Subban.

When discussing who makes Team Canada, they don't look at who has been better on average over the past X seasons, they look at who can win them a 2 week tournament.

Obviously, DD8 is on Team Canada come February, most likely playing top 4 minutes. But to say A) Subban won't be and B) Subban isn't currently one of the league's best defensemen is completely ridiculous.

Stop with the facts.

Otherwise I could tell you how great "defensively" Thomas Vanek was in 06-07 with a +47
- sbroads24

Vanek for Selke

WoW! another who comments just on highlights or looking at stats! typical! LOL
Karlsson was great defensively (pre-injury)! You don't need to make the big hit through the boards to be good defensively! When did Lidstrom destroy a guy with a check? Karlsson was the same, his incredible speed catching up to guys and great stick work was how he was great defensively!
Now he's still recovering from the injury and because of that lost some speed, so his defensive play has indeed taken a little hit while his offensive skill is still #1 in the league!
- Raven33

so stats don't count, trophies don't count.

the only thing that seems to count to you is giveaways.