but a different system might make the D look better, and a new coach would bring that
- bobbyisno1

The true contenders don't go changing the system every couple years to pacify prima donna millionaires, though.

Carlyle has a Norris Trophy and a cup ring to his name - things that not one healthy skater on this team has. If players can't learn to play a winning system, they need to go before the coach.

Both goalies can handle it as long as they keep the scoring chances down.

Reimer performed fine last year behind almost the exact same group. What's troubling is that they are failing to do the most fundamental things right now.

Phaneuf may have actually improved, and Gunnarson's health is step forward, but every other defenseman of this team has regressed.

From the sounds of it, Kulikov is a stone-cold defender who lacks consistency. At this point, I'd be willing to accept inconsistency if we got only flashes of competence.
- Leeman4Gilmour

Franson has stepped back a tad, but also they or he has had some bad bounces. It seems every time the puck gets by Franson it's bouncing - frick

The Leafs were lucky with injuries last season. This year it's been the opposite. I think their record is pretty good given all the injuries.
- RogerRoeper

They're also realizing that goalies playing lights out only carries you so long before it bites you.

Our PK sucks!!!

I don't remember our PK last year looking like this years.


We have 1 forward covering 2 point men, like WTF?

You can give up shots, but not 1 timer after 1'timer from the hash marks
- Garnie

That was my biggest issue with Wilson. The PK where they would just stand there and wave their sticks at them. EVERY effective PK plays smart AND aggressive. If a guy is fumbling the puck, ENGAGE. They aren't forcing the the opposition to make quick plays, too much setup time for them.

When they were effective they were in the other teams face, making them make quick plays which often lead to turnovers or missed passes/shots, etc.

Absolutely. He spent the summer filling in areas of strength instead of the areas of weakness. Team toughness and scoring were fine, I love CLarkson but the LEafs had plenty of what he brings already. Same with the goalies, Bernier is a good golaie but they already had two good guys. In a cap you have to distribute monies properly and all they did was add unnecessarily.
- aminnes

acquiring Bernier was a great trade.

Like who?

And who knows how Scrivens' numbers are in Toronto. Bernier has faced 60% more shots.
- RogerRoeper

Orr/McClaren/Phaneuf/Franson

You're right, we did need Clarkson.

We should have used Fraser/Rangers money to get a better D ( if there was 1 avaialble)

acquiring Bernier was a great trade.
- Cherry--Skoal

It really was. And his value is much higher than what they paid for him.

We can be lazy and look @ Scrivens' great numbers in L.A but he is simply not being tested like Bernier is.

The true contenders don't go changing the system every couple years to pacify prima donna millionaires, though.

Carlyle has a Norris Trophy and a cup ring to his name - things that not one healthy skater on this team has. If players can't learn to play a winning system, they need to go before the coach.
- Leeman4Gilmour

No Getzlaf. No Perry. No Pronger. Not sure exactly what his system is but if he's trying to implement the same one he did in Anaheim it probably won't fare as well.

Like who?

And who knows how Scrivens' numbers are in Toronto. Bernier has faced 60% more shots.
- RogerRoeper

More shots... Because the d sucks because it wasn't augmented.

Most of the TO forwards bring a certain amount of toughness other than Bozak and Kessel. Big Wingers that dont shy away. The bottom line is that the team had plenty of toughness, so what exactly is he bringing that they needed more than a 6 million dollar defensmen?

Franson has stepped back a tad, but also they or he has had some bad bounces. It seems every time the puck gets by Franson it's bouncing - frick
- Garnie

The problem is that he will never be a good enough skater to play anything more than #4 minutes at best.

His old partner, Fraser, is just lost out there. I'm wondering if we should get them back together as #5/6 again. Don't fix what isn't broken.

They're also realizing that goalies playing lights out only carries you so long before it bites you.
- TheTaoOfSemenko

And as the Oilers have learned a goalie playing like poop only helps you get first overall picks.

Orr/McClaren/Phaneuf/Franson

You're right, we did need Clarkson.

We should have used Fraser/Rangers money to get a better D ( if there was 1 avaialble)
- Garnie

No. Not even close. You think Clarkson brings what Orr or Mclarken does?

They're also realizing that goalies playing lights out only carries you so long before it bites you.
- TheTaoOfSemenko

They weren't really playing lights out. It seems we are now giving teams the same amount of shots but from great scoring areas

Imo

They're also realizing that goalies playing lights out only carries you so long before it bites you.
- TheTaoOfSemenko

and here comes the voice of reason

And as the Oilers have learned a goalie playing like poop only helps you get first overall picks.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

You can attribute a lot of that to their atrocious defence as well.

The problem is that he will never be a good enough skater to play anything more than #4 minutes at best.

His old partner, Fraser, is just lost out there. I'm wondering if we should get them back together as #5/6 again. Don't fix what isn't broken.
- Leeman4Gilmour

He needs to take some dancing lessons and he will be fine

Fraser is lost, I thought he looked lost before his injury. I got ripped in here for saying it, but what else is new. Surprised I wasn't banned for it

No. Not even close. You think Clarkson brings what Orr or Mclarken does?
- RogerRoeper

Did you finish reading what I wrote

Franson is a guy I'd dump to save cap money. I don't like his play at all.

They weren't really playing lights out. It seems we are now giving teams the same amount of shots but from great scoring areas

Imo
- Garnie

Ottawa discovered this reality as well.

You can attribute a lot of that to their atrocious defence as well.
- TheTaoOfSemenko

True.. More true than bad goaltending. Khabibulin was a good goalie

That was my biggest issue with Wilson. The PK where they would just stand there and wave their sticks at them. EVERY effective PK plays smart AND aggressive. If a guy is fumbling the puck, ENGAGE. They aren't forcing the the opposition to make quick plays, too much setup time for them.

When they were effective they were in the other teams face, making them make quick plays which often lead to turnovers or missed passes/shots, etc.
- markmark

Yes last year every player on the PK was aggressive, now it seems the only aggression is the high forward

No Getzlaf. No Perry. No Pronger. Not sure exactly what his system is but if he's trying to implement the same one he did in Anaheim it probably won't fare as well.
- TheTaoOfSemenko

So, what's the solution, then?

Play a system that players can handle, but doesn't get you anywhere?

Switching the coach should be a last resort in hockey. It's a short term fix at best. The only time I remember a coaching change having a real impact was when the Blues hired Hitchcock.

But, if this team can't play Carlyle hockey, what makes us believe they can play Hitchcock's style?

Franson is a guy I'd dump to save cap money. I don't like his play at all.
- RogerRoeper

Oh come on. Try to like him, I think he's our best D after Phaneuf. Sure he's had a couple rough moments this year, but they've been playing him with some poopty guys.

True.. More true than bad goaltending. Khabibulin was a good goalie
- Arctic_AARDVARK

If played a certain amount. Too many games and he folded like a tent. The main issue in those years was no capable backup. Now, the goalies have been playing better and they've won 6 of 8. Sucks, cause if Dubnyk had played remotely competent to start the year we wouldn't be out of the playoffs in December.

So, what's the solution, then?

Play a system that players can handle, but doesn't get you anywhere?

Switching the coach should be a last resort in hockey. It's a short term fix at best. The only time I remember a coaching change having a real impact was when the Blues hired Hitchcock.

But, if this team can't play Carlyle hockey, what makes us believe they can play Hitchcock's style?
- Leeman4Gilmour

Exactly, the last thing you wanna do is panic and fire a SC winning coach.