No, this is alright. One player down and the basketball team goes to poop. The NBA sucks.


- EKolb13

Agreed.

It is nuts - for any deal that would be remotely possible.

But - IF Montreal said Subban for Keith, straight up - wouldn't you at least have to consider it?
- StLBravesFan

No.

Answer this: in the playoffs, say the final round, whom is going to be making smart plays all game long? Whom is a shut down defender with occassional ringing body checks, and his skating adds to the things he can do that few defenseman in the league can do?

Subban is a great talent, no doubt. But in crunch time his powerplay shot means diddly crap if he cannot do the things Keith can on the defensive side. Defense first is the mantra in the playoffs. When you have a Keith and Seabrook, then if you had a Subban, too, this is when he could stand out. But even then.....look at the Olympics....say Subban is rostered....against a team of high calibre players I am sure there are times in a game(s) where Subban sits. But Keith is too good to sit.

I get it that Subban is younger.
I will not even consider Subban's upside. It is irrelevant now to this discussion. Keith is better, much more so. While there have been seasons, or even just some games where Keith makes bone headed decisions, in the end - crunch time - you win a Stanley Cup with Keith.

Btw, RealWiz will maybe go nuts, but I agree with 6628, who feels a better skater Seabrook could mean so much more to his team. You look at his stride, he is not a good skater. Adequate. This is not to say Seabrook is not good. On the contrary, Seabrook can be one helluva player. Under rated as it was reported by some NHL coach recently. I just wish 6628 could explain the Seabrook skating thing, because he understands the technical issue better than I do.

Agreed.
- Ogilthorpe2

Vantel from the Nucks board was overhere today looking for you.

Jordan also had deals with Nike and others that were worth around $100 million. Scottie never smelled a whiff of that kind of money.
- rtang415

No, not nearly what Jordan had - but substantial outside income numbers nonetheless.

Plus his last couple of sesons with Portland / Houston at over $15MM per.

His problem was stupid business decisions that (reportedly) cost him tens of millions of dollars.

No.

Answer this: in the playoffs, say the final round, whom is going to be making smart plays all game long? Whom is a shut down defender with occassional ringing body checks, and his skating adds to the things he can do that few defenseman in the league can do?

Subban is a great talent, no doubt. But in crunch time his powerplay shot means diddly crap if he cannot do the things Keith can on the defensive side. Defense first is the mantra in the playoffs. When you have a Keith and Seabrook, then if you had a Subban, too, this is when he could stand out. But even then.....look at the Olympics....say Subban is rostered....against a team of high calibre players I am sure there are times in a game(s) where Subban sits. But Keith is too good to sit.

I get it that Subban is younger.
I will not even consider Subban's upside. It is irrelevant now to this discussion. Keith is better, much more so. While there have been seasons, or even just some games where Keith makes bone headed decisions, in the end - crunch time - you win a Stanley Cup with Keith.

Btw, RealWiz will maybe go nuts, but I agree with 6628, who feels a better skater Seabrook could mean so much more to his team. You look at his stride, he is not a good skater. Adequate. This is not to say Seabrook is not good. On the contrary, Seabrook can be one helluva player. Under rated as it was reported by some NHL coach recently. I just wish 6628 could explain the Seabrook skating thing, because he understands the technical issue better than I do.
- jhawk59

While again, I probably would not do the deal, but:

All of your criticisms of Subban ignore the fact that this is only his 4th season at 24 years old - and he won the Norris last year. He has plenty of room - and time - to grow - and defensemen typically take a bit longer than forwards to reach their potential.

No, not nearly what Jordan had - but substantial outside income numbers nonetheless.

Plus his last couple of sesons with Portland / Houston at over $15MM per.

His problem was stupid business decisions that (reportedly) cost him tens of millions of dollars.
- StLBravesFan

Absolutley correct. He did not have the people around him that Jordan had helping him with is money. Reinsdorf tried one time to steer him to the right people but it was at a time where, as you said, he was pissed about his contract so he told Jerry no thanks.

Btw, RealWiz will maybe go nuts, but I agree with 6628, who feels a better skater Seabrook could mean so much more to his team. You look at his stride, he is not a good skater. Adequate. This is not to say Seabrook is not good. On the contrary, Seabrook can be one helluva player. Under rated as it was reported by some NHL coach recently. I just wish 6628 could explain the Seabrook skating thing, because he understands the technical issue better than I do.
- jhawk59

Any D man playing on a pairing with Keith is going to look really subpar as a skater. Seabs is a really good passer, has a good shot, and can throw his weight around. This is why the pairing is a killer to play against.

Btw, RealWiz will maybe go nuts, but I agree with 6628, who feels a better skater Seabrook could mean so much more to his team. You look at his stride, he is not a good skater. Adequate. This is not to say Seabrook is not good. On the contrary, Seabrook can be one helluva player. Under rated as it was reported by some NHL coach recently. I just wish 6628 could explain the Seabrook skating thing, because he understands the technical issue better than I do.
- jhawk59

A better skating Seabrook is Shea Weber and that's it in the whole league. So unless you can get Shea Weber, you're not getting a better skater who brings what Seabs brings

Absolutley correct. He did not have the people around him that Jordan had helping him with is money. Reinsdorf tried one time to steer him to the right people but it was at a time where, as you said, he was pissed about his contract so he told Jerry no thanks.
- rtang415

True: supposedly Reinsdorf also tried to talk him out of signing that first long-tern contract, saying he (Pippen) would regret it later - but Pippen (logically, given his background from poverty in Hamburg, Arkansas) wanted the long-term security.

But a terrific player: one of the best defensive non-centers ever - he was fun to watch.

It's good to have Zeus back. We'll see where he ends up when Hossa comes back. I'd still go with this:

Sharp - Toews - Hossa
Saad - Pirri - Kane
Shaw - Kruger - Versteeg
Bollig - Handzus - Smith
- DarthKane

No matter how you line them up, a key advantage in the playoffs could be that we can roll four lines that are better than our opponent. Four lines coming at them with more speed than they could counter against our defense? Maybe. Saad scoring a point a game and a healthy Hossa would sure mean a lot. Both Pirri and Kruger playing well adds to our depth. My worry would be that Crawford is mentally and physically sharp in net by the final two rounds. Also, I have to suggest to Al, it is a concern if Rosi gets any slower. Yeah yeah, he was a big part of the Cup last year. He has loads of experience. I just don't want to see him get beat by a forward coming out of the corner when the opponent is rotating the puck, or get beat wide. I realize Larry Murphy was maybe one of the best recent history at playing angles but Rosi just cannot be too slow.

You have noticed that Rosi does have some bad moments or games in regular season? Coming back from injury, not in game shape after sitting out a few for an older, slower skater...is tough. Tell me I am over reacting on Rosi. Ok. Just bringing up a concern. Btw: Olsen up with Florida due to injuries. I think Olsen still has parts of his game needing to become better. Olsen played well in AHL this season by all accounts but he is still not NHL ready. See how he does and his TOI while in the big show.

Vantel from the Nucks board was overhere today looking for you.
- rtang415

He's ok with me...one of the more level headed Nuck fans.

All the beat writers are saying Hossa will meet the team in CGY and play on Weds night..

You're correct, but the reality is he did, that's why I wouldn't trade him for anybody. Also adding a defenseman who plays a totally different style would have possible negative implications
- rollpards19

I said at the time and maintain the same ...If you are going to give a retirement like contract out I would want to do it for a defenseman in his mid 20's.

A better skating Seabrook is Shea Weber and that's it in the whole league. So unless you can get Shea Weber, you're not getting a better skater who brings what Seabs brings
- rollpards19

A better comparison is Chris Pronger......Which was what my guess Seabrook could turn into after 2010. But his progress has slowed a bit with 2 Cups.

I say Pronger because they move about the same and shoot about the same but Pronger was a more dirty player.

Maybe we can clone Crow using either a rib from Fvineze ?
- philco28

More like his ass since he has a lot of that.

If he can't come back from this one, probably one of the two best players in Chicago sports to have a career-debilitating knee injury: Gale Sayers the second one.

Of course, Willy Galimore had the ultimate career ending injury - maybe as much talent as Sayers.
- StLBravesFan

You can throw Butkus in there too. Probably played the last 5 years of his career on one leg.

True: supposedly Reinsdorf also tried to talk him out of signing that first long-tern contract, saying he (Pippen) would regret it later - but Pippen (logically, given his background from poverty in Hamburg, Arkansas) wanted the long-term security.

But a terrific player: one of the best defensive non-centers ever - he was fun to watch.
- StLBravesFan

I know this will drive Ogi nuts. Not only was Pippen an outstanding one on one defender, he may be the best help defender to ever play.

A better comparison is Chris Pronger......Which was what my guess Seabrook could turn into after 2010. But his progress has slowed a bit with 2 Cups.

I say Pronger because they move about the same and shoot about the same but Pronger was a more dirty player.
- Al

That's a good comparison, but Seabs is at best Pronger-lite. Pronger immediately made average playoff teams cup contenders. The guy was amazing

I just like him on the 4th line and in a PK role. I admit I don't think he should play every game, but he still has some gas left in the tank.

When the roster is fully healthy I would go with this:

Sharp - Toews - Hossa
Saad - Pirri - Kane
Bickell - Shaw - Versteeg
Bollig/Handzus - Kruger - Smith
Bollig/Handzus
- DarthKane

Handzus also can handle himself in front of the net - big body with some skill

That's a good comparison, but Seabs is at best Pronger-lite. Pronger immediately made average playoff teams cup contenders. The guy was amazing
- rollpards19

Well if you look at Seabrook in 2010 and Pronger at the same time in his career he wasn't the lite version but....And it is a big but, Pronger got a lot better and so far Seabrook hasn't made the same strides.

That's a good comparison, but Seabs is at best Pronger-lite. Pronger immediately made average playoff teams cup contenders. The guy was amazing
- rollpards19

No one was better at clearing the crease than Pronger. An attribute which is lacking on the Hawks.

Ask Bobby Lou how badly he would like to have a Willie Mitchell type back on his blue line. I would argue Luongo hasn't been the same since he left.

per Lazerus on Twitter, Crawford in net again tonight

Mark Lazerus ‏@MarkLazerus 18m
#Blackhawks lines: Sharp-Toews-Saad, Handzus-Pirri-Kane, Versteeg-Shaw-Morin, Bollig-Kruger-Smith. Hossa expected back in Calgary.
- Glenman12

If Q puts Zus at 2LW some serious stupid stick blows should rain down on him. he'll slow that line down toward crawl against Edmonton? Even Q can't be that (frank)ing nuts.

Just hasn't posted in a few days. Maybe he injured himself banging his head off the wall during the trade Seabrook day.
- Elbows15

You mean that's all I've gotta do?

Well if you look at Seabrook in 2010 and Pronger at the same time in his career he wasn't the lite version but....And it is a big but, Pronger got a lot better and so far Seabrook hasn't made the same strides.
- Al

Seabs has been fantastic lately actually (minus the Colorado and Nashville games when no one was good). He's getting closer to that elite level again IMO. But I remember Pronger on EDM was right around when I first started really watching hockey and the level of dominance he played at was insane. He just controlled the game so well

If Q puts Zus at 2LW some serious stupid stick blows should rain down on him. he'll slow that line down toward crawl against Edmonton? Even Q can't be that (frank)ing nuts.
- Q...argh

Yes, Q is that, as you put it, "nuts."

It doesn't matter all that much anyways. Q will shuffle the lines before the 2nd period.