Follow-up question: We need at least one defenseman, if not now, then for next season, with Timonen's implending retirement.

Just say the Flyers decide not to wait for the guys in the pipeline -- which they may very well do -- but for the sake of the question, say they don't. And that Brayden Schenn gets traded for a defenseman.

The question: What defenseman out there do you think he is worth, straight-up? No picks, no extras. Just a 1-to-1.

If not Jake Gardiner, that's fine. But who would you be comfortable with?
- AllInForFlyers

Maybe I'm avoiding the question here, but I believe that there are a few d-prospects and up-and-comers that the Flyers might be able to get w/o trading Brayden Schenn or Couturier or Laughton.

Yes or no: Would you do Brayden Schenn for Jake Gardiner?

Just curious.
- AllInForFlyers

trade the great schenn for the spare part yea ok

Great pod cast Bill, it really got me thinking about two things. Faceoffs and penalty killing.

Faceoff wise in recent years, it would seem that our best faceoff man in most cases have been our fourth line center. Not in all cases because Giroux was really good last season and Jeff Carter became good over time until we oddly moved him to the wing, which I still wonder why. For the most part though, Jimmy Dawd, Blair Betts and now Adam Hall. I think the last time we had consistently good faceoff men who played top minutes was when Jeremy Roenick and Keith Primeau were around. Than you can add Adam Oates to that time and a season later. Michael Handzus. I think signed Lecavalier was a real surprise for most of us instead of buying into the rumours and going after a wing like Bobby Ryan, while living and dying with Giroux, Schenn, Couturier and Talbot who all struggled last season.

What I think we are missing is a legit PK pair. For along time we've had such pairs as Kent Manderville and Paul Ranheim. Blair Betts and Ian Laperiere, which quickly turned into Betts and Powe after Lappy's injury. Richards and Gagne, which became Richards and Giroux after Gagne had a long term injury. Without question in my mind I thought Talbot and Giroux looked settled in together and it looks like Couturier and Read are an improve pair right now but the key word to me is "settled in". I've seen a lot of Giroux off and on the PK. We just traded Talbot, so we don't look settled in to me. I think we need that legit PK pair, where those two play mostly play the fourth line 5 on 5. Maybe Raffl and/or Rinaldo might settle in there but I miss guys like Manderville, Lapointe, Powe, Dawd, Ranheim and Betts, where you knew exactly what to expect from them. I like the Talbot trade but he was one of those guys.
- Schenn2shine

God I wish your posts were shorter... I just look at them and my ADD says, "Nupe"

At the risk of sounding crazy -- and because I publicly supported the use of Rinaldo on the PK, and still do -- I guess I'm not that concerned with the PK just yet, whether Rinaldo's on it or not, or because Maxime Talbot's gone.

I mean, let's look at this honestly. Some of the PPGs they've given up have been from Malkin-to-Crosby, two rockets from Dustin Byfuglien, and an odd bounce off a backboard right to a guy's stick.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that it wouldn't be nice to have killed them all.

But I just can't worry about the PK just yet. It's gonna get scored on at some point, and for example, those two bullets from Byfuglien...I don't think it would've mattered if John Madden and Patrice Bergeron were killing those penalties. Those two shots were going in.
- AllInForFlyers

I will say that I haven't noticed a breakdown by Rinaldo that led to those goals...I'm just not a fan of him on the PK...you need discipline on the PK.

trade the great schenn for the spare part yea ok
- 2Real

I would do L.Schenn and B.Schenn for JVR and Gardiner....

At the risk of sounding crazy -- and because I publicly supported the use of Rinaldo on the PK, and still do -- I guess I'm not that concerned with the PK just yet, whether Rinaldo's on it or not, or because Maxime Talbot's gone.

I mean, let's look at this honestly. Some of the PPGs they've given up have been from Malkin-to-Crosby, two rockets from Dustin Byfuglien, and an odd bounce off a backboard right to a guy's stick.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that it wouldn't be nice to have killed them all.

But I just can't worry about the PK just yet. It's gonna get scored on at some point, and for example, those two bullets from Byfuglien...I don't think it would've mattered if John Madden and Patrice Bergeron were killing those penalties. Those two shots were going in.
- AllInForFlyers

Good PK guys will usually force other players to beat them. In other words, they will take away the number 1 option.

trade the great schenn for the spare part yea ok
- 2Real

I feel like I should just mention, for the record, that Patrick Sharp was little more than a spare part when we traded him to Chicago. Just throwing that out there.

I would do L.Schenn and B.Schenn for JVR and Gardiner....
- youarewrong

That' the other thing, if they do a B. Schenn for defenseman trade, there will almost certainly have to be more pieces or another trade, because then they'd have 9 NHL defensemen on the roster

I will say that I haven't noticed a breakdown by Rinaldo that led to those goals...I'm just not a fan of him on the PK...you need discipline on the PK.
- Jsaquella

That is funny, but last night I was watching him on the PK and I thought he looked really good. Covered the ice well. Took away passing lanes... I think if you give him some time, he will actually be a great PKer. He is very fast skater and that really helps get into position and we know he will sacrifice his body...

I hope he sticks on the PK... wouldnt mind seeing him get time with Giroux out there.

I will say that I haven't noticed a breakdown by Rinaldo that led to those goals...I'm just not a fan of him on the PK...you need discipline on the PK.
- Jsaquella

He had some nice breakups on the entries. His speed would help. Giroux, Hall and Couts are not the fastest guys. Read adds some much needed speed.

Carter didn't play much wing here.

And he actually is a full time wing in LA.
- johndewar

You're kidding right? Carter played a lot of wing his final season as a Flyer to get Giroux moved to the middle.

I will say that I haven't noticed a breakdown by Rinaldo that led to those goals...I'm just not a fan of him on the PK...you need discipline on the PK.
- Jsaquella

Guys like Dorsett, Prust, Glass, Ott, Cooke, Matt Martin, Lapierre and Burrows that aren't the most disciplined players do fine on the PK... when you're busy chasing the puck like a terrier, there's really not much opportunity to get in trouble. I'm thinking Rinaldo gets called for flipping the puck over the glass before he gets called for roughing or boarding on the PK.

That' the other thing, if they do a B. Schenn for defenseman trade, there will almost certainly have to be more pieces or another trade, because then they'd have 9 NHL defensemen on the roster
- Jsaquella

I don't see any move involving a young player until the offseason unless they're getting back a stud dman.

Gardiner seems like another in a long line of over-hyped Leafs prospects/young players: Gustavsson, Aulie, Frattin, Stalberg, Stajan, White, Tlusty, Pogge, Stralman, Antropov, Robbie Earl, Brendan Bell... etc etc. Maybe Luke Schenn's in this list, too.

Aside from Tuukka Rask, who barely got any press, I can't really think of another youngster the Leafs traded away that actually went on to be any good.
- Tomahawk

Alex Steen is doing pretty well this year, no?

And I remember Rask was a first round pick and I find it VERY difficult to believe he got no press. As I recall, they put all their eggs in the basket of Canadian Golden Boy Justin Pogge.

You're kidding right? Carter played a lot of wing his final season as a Flyer to get Giroux moved to the middle.
- Schenn2shine

I don't remember him playing much wing. I remember them playing him at wing when he came back for the finals. He was always much better at center because he could utilize his skating. He's never been a very good board guy.

You're kidding right? Carter played a lot of wing his final season as a Flyer to get Giroux moved to the middle.
- Schenn2shine

Not true. At all.

At the risk of sounding crazy -- and because I publicly supported the use of Rinaldo on the PK, and still do -- I guess I'm not that concerned with the PK just yet, whether Rinaldo's on it or not, or because Maxime Talbot's gone.

I mean, let's look at this honestly. Some of the PPGs they've given up have been from Malkin-to-Crosby, two rockets from Dustin Byfuglien, and an odd bounce off a backboard right to a guy's stick.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that it wouldn't be nice to have killed them all.

But I just can't worry about the PK just yet. It's gonna get scored on at some point, and for example, those two bullets from Byfuglien...I don't think it would've mattered if John Madden and Patrice Bergeron were killing those penalties. Those two shots were going in.
- AllInForFlyers

Well as far as the Jets game goes, one was a bullet seconds into the penalty and the other was a bad line change. As for the Crosby goal, he was left alone. No eyes were even on him except Malkin.

I don't remember him playing much wing. I remember them playing him at wing when he came back for the finals. He was always much better at center because he could utilize his skating. He's never been a very good board guy.
- PhillySportsGuy

He's built like a wing and shoots like a wing.

That's why the Flyers wanted him to play wing. And he wouldn't/couldn't adjust. Or the Flyers didn't have the patience for him. Whatever. It didn't happen.

It wasn't until he went to LA that he played wing regularly.

Not true. At all.
- johndewar

Nothing but true.

Nothing but true.
- Schenn2shine

Sorry, but you're wrong. We're not going to agree on this.

Guys like Dorsett, Prust, Glass, Ott, Cooke, Matt Martin, Lapierre and Burrows that aren't the most disciplined players do fine on the PK... when you're busy chasing the puck like a terrier, there's really not much opportunity to get in trouble. I'm thinking Rinaldo gets called for flipping the puck over the glass before he gets called for roughing or boarding on the PK.
- Tomahawk

I mean more disciplined in terms of staying in lanes, not over pursuing and not getting to running around.

I mean more disciplined in terms of staying in lanes, not over pursuing and not getting to running around.
- Jsaquella

Ahhh... he did over-pursue a bit on the MacArthur goal, but I don't really see that being chronic. Word on the street is that he's a pretty clever/insightful player.

Ahhh... he did over-pursue a bit on the MacArthur goal, but I don't really see that being chronic. Word on the street is that he's a pretty clever/insightful player.
- Tomahawk

Hard to blame him on that, really. It was some good work by the Sens

Well as far as the Jets game goes, one was a bullet seconds into the penalty and the other was a bad line change. As for the Crosby goal, he was left alone. No eyes were even on him except Malkin.
- Schenn2shine

Agreed.

Hey, I'll be the first to admit (because I'm sure it will be fairly obvious) when Rinaldo does something brutal on the PK, but up to now, over these last few games...I just haven't seen anything he's done that would've either stopped those goals, or were a direct result of something he didn't do -- the bad line change against Winnipeg was especially egregious, and that was at least three guys who didn't make a good decision, there.

Again, I think he deserves a chance to increase his value to the team. He'd be better served in keeping his arse out of the box to begin with, but he can skate well enough to PK...I think he deserves a chance.

Sorry, but you're wrong. We're not going to agree on this.
- johndewar

We don't have to agree on it but it doesn't make me wrong.