The "no hands" thing needs to be put in perspective, and it's tiring to see it all the time. Hilbert had no hands and had just one attribute: speed. Grabner's obviously a more dynamic player than that. There's a big difference between not being good on a breakaway and having "no hands." The guy has a hard wrist shot that's worlds more accurate than Okposo's, if not quite as hard. He also makes it look easy taking off=target passes at full speed, and can use his stick better than anyone else on the team to pick off passes and push the puck exactly where it needs to be so he can get up to speed quickly and take it the other way. You need hands for all of that. Think back to when you all played and ask yourselves if you could have done those things as well.

Rather than "no hands," he simply has no moves on the breakaway. He's very predictable when he goes to the backhand. Look, he's in a rut now, sure. Probably the worst one he's been in since he's been an Islander. So naturally, the vultures come out, particularly those who don't even like the Isles, to pick at the carcass. He's an asset...frankly one I'd rather have than some of these other characters people fawn over here because they have one good month out of every season and do nothing else out there when they're not scoring.

He has no hands and never will but he's still a 30 goal scorer and one of the most effective players on the team when given a chance. You can't sit there and say playing with those plugs gives him a chance. I'm not going to sit here and defend the guy but NOBODY would be all that effective under those circumstances. Just like Nino wasn't Grabner won't be. He's not a perfect player I have a handle on what his capabilities are but he's being misused. Shocker, like so many others on this team. Capuano, moron. The guy is an effective PK'er and has seen reduced ice time in that sense. How's the PK been? I'll leave it at that.
- Cptmjl

Here's the point: you have a strength up front. You're weak on the back end. Grabs might be "under utilized" but of all your forwards, he is the one that should be moved that actually can bring something back to help, such as being packaged for a top-4 d-man. You can move a Colin McDonald or Peter Regin, but those guys aren't going to bring back s**t.

Grabs and a prospect could bring back a top 4 d-man, a clear upgrade over what they have now and address a need they have now. You have to give to get (see MM and two picks for Vanek).

Here's the point: you have a strength up front. You're weak on the back end. Grabs might be "under utilized" but of all your forwards, he is the one that shoukd be moved that actually can bring something back to help, such as being packaged for a top-4 d-man. You can move a Colin McDonald or Peter Regin, but those guys aren't going to bring back s**t.

Grabs and a prospect coukd bring back a top 4 d-man, a clear upgrade over what they have now and address a need they have now. You have to give to get (see MM and two pucks for Vanek).
- Jethro09

Agree with this...gotta give to get, and Grabner certainly isn't an "untouchable" player here. But I'm not kicking him out the door because of a slump, either. For the right return on D, I'd move him.

Agree with this...gotta give to get, and Grabner certainly isn't an "untouchable" player here. But I'm not kicking him out the door because of a slump, either. For the right return on D, I'd move him.
- UIF

Yeah, my thought is we have to move SOMEONE and/or a combination of players/picks to get some quality and size on the back end. I'm not going to do Garth's job for him and decide who that should be, but we NEED a defenseman. It is a GLARING, OBVIOUS need, and it is immediate.

The "no hands" thing needs to be put in perspective, and it's tiring to see it all the time. Hilbert had no hands and had just one attribute: speed. Grabner's obviously a more dynamic player than that. There's a big difference between not being good on a breakaway and having "no hands." The guy has a hard wrist shot that's worlds more accurate than Okposo's, if not quite as hard. He also makes it look easy taking off=target passes at full speed, and can use his stick better than anyone else on the team to pick off passes and push the puck exactly where it needs to be so he can get up to speed quickly and take it the other way. You need hands for all of that. Think back to when you all played and ask yourselves if you could have done those things as well.

Rather than "no hands," he simply has no moves on the breakaway. He's very predictable when he goes to the backhand. Look, he's in a rut now, sure. Probably the worst one he's been in since he's been an Islander. So naturally, the vultures come out, particularly those who don't even like the Isles, to pick at the carcass. He's an asset...frankly one I'd rather have than some of these other characters people fawn over here because they have one good month out of every season and do nothing else out there when they're not scoring.
- UIF

Hey, I'm no Grabner supporter by any means, but I will not trade him for sake of making a trade
But you did touch on one thing, is that he is an asset and Isles need to use that asset, but also Grabner needs to play better hockey. That last few games, I watched him float around the ice like Kvasha did. Grant it, I do understand the kid may lack confidence, but he needs to play better to regain his confidence.

And I may get blasted for this, (but don't care) I would trade KO 1st Bailey 2nd before Grabner 3rd to help improve our roster only....

Coaching staff is horrendous on utilizing the players strengths in a game.

The "no hands" thing needs to be put in perspective, and it's tiring to see it all the time. Hilbert had no hands and had just one attribute: speed. Grabner's obviously a more dynamic player than that. There's a big difference between not being good on a breakaway and having "no hands." The guy has a hard wrist shot that's worlds more accurate than Okposo's, if not quite as hard. He also makes it look easy taking off=target passes at full speed, and can use his stick better than anyone else on the team to pick off passes and push the puck exactly where it needs to be so he can get up to speed quickly and take it the other way. You need hands for all of that. Think back to when you all played and ask yourselves if you could have done those things as well.

Rather than "no hands," he simply has no moves on the breakaway. He's very predictable when he goes to the backhand. Look, he's in a rut now, sure. Probably the worst one he's been in since he's been an Islander. So naturally, the vultures come out, particularly those who don't even like the Isles, to pick at the carcass. He's an asset...frankly one I'd rather have than some of these other characters people fawn over here because they have one good month out of every season and do nothing else out there when they're not scoring.
- UIF

One thing that should be considered with Grabner on his breakaways is his immense speed makes it all the more difficult to pull off decent deke moves. While a guy like Frans may appear to have sick hands on breakaways, bump his speed up to that of Grabners and those moves become damn near impossible.

For all his lack of success on breakaways, Grabner does other things better than anyone on this team and as well as anyone in the NHL. NO ONE creates more turnovers at the blueline to create said breakaways. It's not just about his speed but also his anticipation. Grabner is fantastic at getting his stick in passing lanes and coming away with the puck. So while he may ultimately not cash in on his self-created scoring opportunity, he is still killing off penalties with puck possession.

His speed is a double edged sword in that guys like Cappy expect probably more from him in terms of backchecking than they do from a regular player. Still, his ability on the pk and ability to create multiple scoring chances per game, make him a decent weapon that we should be in no hurry to rid ourselves of.

Hiller has been garbage this year and hasn't resembled a good goalie in a few years now
- Isles316

then he's perfect for you!

Remember when you thought grabner was better than hagelin? Goood times
- rangerdanger94

Brodeur a train wreck? Then that makes Nabby the Titanic & the Edmund Fitgerald combined.
I'd take Marty in a heartbeat over Nabby. He's only the greatest goalie ever. Albeit on the downside but Nabby looked worse in the first 20 games this year than in last years playoffs. Brodeur a starter on most nhl teams regardless. And if it were truly a terrible idea, Garth would have been all up in that sh!t.
- jmo16

no no no....brodeur isnt a trainwreck, the IDEA is a trainwreck...giving up assets for a goalie that has maybe 1 year left?? terrible...

Yeah, my thought is we have to move SOMEONE and/or a combination of players/picks to get some quality and size on the back end. I'm not going to do Garth's job for him and decide who that should be, but we NEED a defenseman. It is a GLARING, OBVIOUS need, and it is immediate.
- dcb1

well someone should let garth know...he was certainly counting on you.

and for those who thought having Ted Nolan coaching was going to be good for Buffalo and developing their kids. Grigorenko sent back to juniors and this from Nolan:

On Monday, Ted Nolan told the media that he thought that the Sabres have too many young players on the current roster

now, just my opinion, but you should know coming into the Buffalo job that they're playing a crapload of kids and that they don't have anything else, right? That they're rebuilding and giving the kids a taste of the NHL game because that is their best option right now.

Immediately, doesn't like it. Immediately, wants more vets. This guy is not a teacher, Buffalo is going to regret hiring him.

And I may get blasted for this, (but don't care) I would trade KO 1st Bailey 2nd before Grabner 3rd to help improve our roster only....

Coaching staff is horrendous on utilizing the players strengths in a game.
- Ur Not Me

I agree but I'd put Bailey 1st on the trade table. He'd probably bring back less than Okposo, so the pot might have to be sweetened. I not a fan of either guy but I am a fan of Grabner. He brings a unique skill set that the coaches don't use properly.

and for those who thought having Ted Nolan coaching was going to be good for Buffalo and developing their kids. Grigorenko sent back to juniors and this from Nolan:



now, just my opinion, but you should know coming into the Buffalo job that they're playing a crapload of kids and that they don't have anything else, right? That they're rebuilding and giving the kids a taste of the NHL game because that is their best option right now.

Immediately, doesn't like it. Immediately, wants more vets. This guy is not a teacher, Buffalo is going to regret hiring him.
- Isles_since_6

You would think he would want to look at as many young kids as possible? I'm still very surprised Buffalo hired Ted to coach again. I think a vet team hiring Ted would have been better.

I agree but I'd put Bailey 1st on the trade table. He'd probably bring back less than Okposo, so the pot might have to be sweetened. I not a fan of either guy but I am a fan of Grabner. He brings a unique skill set that the coaches don't use properly.
- David_Volek

playing with half a deck...id trade the guy who brings back the most talent without giving up the most talent...

Bouchard? Need I say more(I will)? Blaming the coach is not a cop out. I know you're fond of him Dan but this isn't a debate worth even having. Cop out it's not. Reducing a players ice time after he pretty much won the game opening night and demoting him to a line that has barely serviceable NHL players is moronic. No debate, I'll just completely disagree with you. It's easy to blame him now playing what he's playing and who with. Guy probably threw his hands up? I hope they trade him, he doesn't deserve the treatment he's received by our moron coach. It's not shocking his game has suffered I'll give him credit for lasting as long as he has. Half this board is crying about Moulson who was half the hockey player overall as Grabner. Any coach would be salivating to have as versatile a player. Capuano doesn't have a clue.
- Cptmjl

Bouchard has been a thousand times better than grabner. It's nots even a discussion, if grabner was playing better he would get more ice time. It's really that simple. Grabner works his ass off and he gets more playing time. They only argument you could make would be for grabner to play above bailey. That's it. I just don't really understand the uproar. Right now grabner is what he is. A third liner. He is Robert Kron, he is Sami Kapanen. If you suck as accountant is your boss going to give you more important responsibilities? People need to hold players responsible. If grabner wants more playing time FORCE them to get more ice time. Play desperate hockey, finish your checks. It's on the player.

What's going on today???

Bouchard has been a thousand times better than grabner. It's nots even a discussion, if grabner was playing better he would get more ice time. It's really that simple. Grabner works his ass off and he gets more playing time. They only argument you could make would be for grabner to play above bailey. That's it. I just don't really understand the uproar. Right now grabner is what he is. A third liner. He is Robert Kron, he is Sami Kapanen. If you suck as accountant is your boss going to give you more important responsibilities? People need to hold players responsible. If grabner wants more playing time FORCE them to get more ice time. Play desperate hockey, finish your checks. It's on the player.
- Dan Petriw

I guess the biggest issue people have with that is that this rule doesn't seem to apply to ALL of the players. While it's understood that this rule cannot presently apply on defense due to attrition, when a guy like Kyle Okposo stunk as bad as he did for most of last year, all the while seemingly mailing it in, he was never demoted from a top six position. The same went for Brad Boyes. While a guy like Peter Regin has up nights and down nights based on effort and with literally no statistical (save for Mr. Corsi) backup, it seems a bit odd that some of these guys avoid the ire of that approach. Meanwhile someone like Grabner seemingly is called out even during periods when he's producing.
To this day, Grabner is the only guy I've heard Cappy really call out by name to the media.

playing with half a deck...id trade the guy who brings back the most talent without giving up the most talent...
- LetsGoIsles

... and that would be?

and for those who thought having Ted Nolan coaching was going to be good for Buffalo and developing their kids. Grigorenko sent back to juniors and this from Nolan:



now, just my opinion, but you should know coming into the Buffalo job that they're playing a crapload of kids and that they don't have anything else, right? That they're rebuilding and giving the kids a taste of the NHL game because that is their best option right now.

Immediately, doesn't like it. Immediately, wants more vets. This guy is not a teacher, Buffalo is going to regret hiring him.
- Isles_since_6

Grigorenko is simply not ready. Not even close. It’s crystal clear even to the “play the kids” former coach, who had him scratched or in the bottom six. If you're going to tell me playing in juniors is more detrimental to his development than sitting in the press box, well, we'll disagree there. It’s a Nino situation...was he better off as a scratch/fourth liner, or should he have been in juniors, given the stupid transfer rule?

This is the proper thing to do...let your prospects develop the right way. Risto would get huge minutes in the AHL if sent down. Zadorov will go back to a very good junior team. These guys don’t need bottom-pair minutes in situations they’re not fully prepared for.

And if you’re going to use Nolan quotes, at least put them in the proper context...it's actually a point we’d probably all agree with:

“You see some good organizations and how they go about it. You don’t force-feed somebody and say we’re a rebuild. Rebuild is important, but how you rebuild is really important.

“Patty and I have been talking about it since we got involved. I think you can have some young kids, a few of them, but not as many as we have.

“Some of these guys haven’t matured into their bodies yet, and matured mentally and physically. Girgensons, for example, he seems a little bit more mature for his age. Those type of guys can play.”

... and that would be?
- David_Volek

depends on what we are getting back...

I guess the biggest issue people have with that is that this rule doesn't seem to apply to ALL of the players. While it's understood that this rule cannot presently apply on defense due to attrition, when a guy like Kyle Okposo stunk as bad as he did for most of last year, all the while seemingly mailing it in, he was never demoted from a top six position. The same went for Brad Boyes. While a guy like Peter Regin has up nights and down nights based on effort and with literally no statistical (save for Mr. Corsi) backup, it seems a bit odd that some of these guys avoid the ire of that approach. Meanwhile someone like Grabner seemingly is called out even during periods when he's producing.
To this day, Grabner is the only guy I've heard Cappy really call out by name to the media.
- keaner17

You nailed it keaner. Guys like KO and Boyes were doing nothing and were not demoted. You cannot just have an issue with Grabner and everyone else gets a pass.

- LetsGoIsles

this guy certainly was not in enough movies. He was hysterical in Office Space.

Grabs has value. Hes a former 30 goal scorer. He's signed to a reasonable contract. He's still young. He kills penalties and creates offensive chances even if he can't bury 10% of those chances because of his hands of stone. Teams thin on offense and penalty killing but deep on "D" would definitely give up a good d-man in a grabner package.

Grabner has assets you can't teach and no one else in lineup has.

We are always complaining about how he went 0-3 on breakaways the night before. But name another islander that has even one breakaway a game?

This guy creates scoring opportunities by himself.
Cappy does ruin him. Grab misses one back check and cappy exiles him. yet others can get max min and be invisible.

And yes grab should be a mainstay on pk. And he should be getting pp time over regin and Colin McDonald.
- Spartiarti

Holy crap we agee

Here's the point: you have a strength up front. You're weak on the back end. Grabs might be "under utilized" but of all your forwards, he is the one that should be moved that actually can bring something back to help, such as being packaged for a top-4 d-man. You can move a Colin McDonald or Peter Regin, but those guys aren't going to bring back s**t.

Grabs and a prospect could bring back a top 4 d-man, a clear upgrade over what they have now and address a need they have now. You have to give to get (see MM and two picks for Vanek).
- Jethro09

I don't disgree. If that were the case and we could get a reurn I'd be fibe with it. Guy is not and will never be used properly. Its a waste but we might as well get a return.

Agree with this...gotta give to get, and Grabner certainly isn't an "untouchable" player here. But I'm not kicking him out the door because of a slump, either. For the right return on D, I'd move him.
- UIF

Nice bold. I don't kniw whether his departure would hurt as much now seeing as he is barely used to begin with? Pk has been awesome lately