His overall game is inconsistent. He doesn't play well in his own end. I just don't like him. I'm not overly impressed with a guy who can just put up points. If I'm trading significant prospects, I want a good all around defenseman.

He's basically the offensive version of Grossmann. Grossmann is good defensively, but offers nothing in terms of offense. Buff is good offensively, but offers very little in terms of defense.
- PhillySportsGuy

Sounds like Sergei Gonchar or Alex Goligoski.

Lunch break

Depends. Laughton will cost you less. Schenn's leading a team that had a piss poor offensive start to the season in scoring. I'm not saying B Schenn is a bust, I'm just saying there's a ton of options, and they shouldn't be rushing either out the door.
- jmatchett383

I'm not rushing anyone out the door, I'm looking at the best way to make the team better.

Laughton has been stellar in the OHL this year, He was very good last year.

When Brayden Schenn was in the OHL, his last season, he scored 99 points in 59 games. He had more assists than games played. He dominated that OHL every bit as much-if not more-than Laughton is now.

With Couturier, Schenn and Giroux, there's a bit of a log jam at center. It's an area where there's a ton of depth. I'm not against trading any of them in the right deal.

edit: ghost post

I'm just stating that, unless it's a great offer (young, top-pair d-man), I'd rather see what he can do with at least 1/2 NHL season. You want to trade him for a young puck mover. Would you trade him for another Erik Gustafsson?
- jmatchett383

No, that's kind of my point. I'd be looking for a guy a lot more established than Gustafsson.

A lot of it boils down to team needs. Yeah, Laughton's tearing up the OHL right now. But Couturier did the same in the Q, and Brayden Schenn did the same in the OHL.

Laughton comes in and plays 4th line center. How long does he stay there? Does he surpass Couturier? The Flyers have a ton of center depth and a real need on defense.

Keeping prospects is admirable. But ignoring a serious organizational need in the name of "patience" is not really making progress. If they trade Laughton, and get a good, mobile defenseman in his mid twenties, I'd have a hard time being angry about it.

I'm not saying move him for Byfuglien or Brian Campbell.
- Jsaquella

Maybe Laughton turns out to be better than Couts? Gotta see them both at the same level to truly evaluate what we've got.

Like we talked about last night, I'd prefer to move some of our older players before this year's TDL, players we know probably won't be back and/or we don't really want, and let the kids continue to develop. We might be able to get into the playoffs this season, especially with our goalies playing like they are, but do we have what it takes to make a deep run?

I'd rather build patiently for the next two seasons with all the prospects we have that might be able to come in and make an impact.

I expect his production to increase as he ages and gains more experience, but he's outscoring all but 3 players in the league, many of them his own age or older. All the while, he's being one of the better defensive players in the league and is his team's captain.

But yeah, he's not really that good. Those numbers are all lies.
- jmatchett383

Never said he wasnt good. The question is, is he as good as his Junior numbers indicate? The question is... if those numbers will translate into the NHL.

In my opinion, you trade whoever has the higher trade value between Couturier and Laughton for that top defenseman. If because of these Junior numbers Laughton's trade value is higher, then trade him.... If Couturier's value is still higher, then keep Laughton and give him a chance.... IMO keeping Laughton is more of a gamble then keeping Couturier, so if his value is higher now because of the inflated Junior performance, then Sell high...

I'm not rushing anyone out the door, I'm looking at the best way to make the team better.

Laughton has been stellar in the OHL this year, He was very good last year.

When Brayden Schenn was in the OHL, his last season, he scored 99 points in 59 games. He had more assists than games played. He dominated that OHL every bit as much-if not more-than Laughton is now.

With Couturier, Schenn and Giroux, there's a bit of a log jam at center. It's an area where there's a ton of depth. I'm not against trading any of them in the right deal.
- Jsaquella

I'm not 100% against it either. But I wouldn't take under market value simply because we have a lot of good centers.
If you look at Boston's team last year, they had 8 players who were natural centers. They found a way to work them all in to their team.

I'm not rushing anyone out the door, I'm looking at the best way to make the team better.

Laughton has been stellar in the OHL this year, He was very good last year.

When Brayden Schenn was in the OHL, his last season, he scored 99 points in 59 games. He had more assists than games played. He dominated that OHL every bit as much-if not more-than Laughton is now.

With Couturier, Schenn and Giroux, there's a bit of a log jam at center. It's an area where there's a ton of depth. I'm not against trading any of them in the right deal.
- Jsaquella

I'm not 100% against it either. But I wouldn't take under market value simply because we have a lot of good centers.
If you look at Boston's team last year, they had 8 players who were natural centers. They found a way to work them all in to their team.

They have to be rebuilt. Hopefully Amaro isn't the one doing it.
- PLindbergh31

I agree. What's painful is that the rebuild they need will have to start from square one, they don't seem to have anything on the burner. They need a GM who can lay the right foundation, get the right building blocks. Amaro isn't inclined to do this, and he really hasn't shown any savvy for that side of GMing.

His overall game is inconsistent. He doesn't play well in his own end. I just don't like him. I'm not overly impressed with a guy who can just put up points. If I'm trading significant prospects, I want a good all around defenseman.

He's basically the offensive version of Grossmann. Grossmann is good defensively, but offers nothing in terms of offense. Buff is good offensively, but offers very little in terms of defense.
- PhillySportsGuy

Understood. But they need somebody who is good offensively. They have a slew of defensemen that are good defensively. Even with his warts, Byfuglien brings a much needed element.

He's not my first choice at all. But he'd definitely be a guy on my list of possibles.

Sounds like Sergei Gonchar or Alex Goligoski.

Lunch break
- jmatchett383

Gonchar got much better as a defensive player. He was also a truly dynamic offensive d-man. He had Erik Karlsson like ability.

Will happen instantaneously.
"Morin turned that puck over and was a -2, he stinks."
- jmatchett383

So why the double standard?

Writing Rundblad off while he's only gotten his feet wet seems ridiculous... not every dman is going to come in and pull a Tyler Myers right off the bat. PHX is taking their time w/ his develpment and that's not a bad thing at all.

Never said he wasnt good. The question is, is he as good as his Junior numbers indicate? The question is... if those numbers will translate into the NHL.

In my opinion, you trade whoever has the higher trade value between Couturier and Laughton for that top defenseman. If because of these Junior numbers Laughton's trade value is higher, then trade him.... If Couturier's value is still higher, then keep Laughton and give him a chance.... IMO keeping Laughton is more of a gamble then keeping Couturier, so if his value is higher now because of the inflated Junior performance, then Sell high...
- youarewrong

Well, he was in the top-20 in the OHL last year despite missing a boatload of games due to a suspension. So I don't think his scoring is a fluke simply because he's 19.

Again, just because a player comes up as a center means he has to be a center. The best case is B. Schenn. He's playing "out of position" as a winger and leads the team in scoring. Same could be odone with Laughton if needed and evaluate from there.

So why the double standard?

Writing Rundblad off while he's only gotten his feet wet seems ridiculous... not every dman is going to come in and pull a Tyler Myers right off the bat. PHX is taking their time w/ his develpment and that's not a bad thing at all.
- Tomahawk

It was...sarcasm???

But yes, you're right. Let's trade a young 19-year-old whose stock is at an all-time high for a player who's had little to no production in 45 NHL games whose stock is at an all-time low.

I'm not 100% against it either. But I wouldn't take under market value simply because we have a lot of good centers.
If you look at Boston's team last year, they had 8 players who were natural centers. They found a way to work them all in to their team.
- jmatchett383

I wouldn't do it below market value either. You're bringing up names like Gustafsson or even Rundblad. I might trade a guy like Cousins for Rundblad, but if I'm moving Laughton, it's got to be for a good, established defenseman.

Yes, I realize it would take more than Laughton to land a guy like Shattenkirk. But that's understandable.

I agree. What's painful is that the rebuild they need will have to start from square one, they don't seem to have anything on the burner. They need a GM who can lay the right foundation, get the right building blocks. Amaro isn't inclined to do this, and he really hasn't shown any savvy for that side of GMing.
- BulliesPhan87

Nope he hasn't. I wouldn't be opposed to moving Dominic Brown in the right deal. I'm not a huge fan of guys that don't get on base. Brown went more than a month last season without walking. That's ridiculous.

right... Boo 23 year old Schenn... yea... 23 year old Rundblad.
- youarewrong

I only crap on Streit, sorry.

I'm a big Luke Schenn fan -- don't think he'll come anywhere close to meeting draft-day expectations, but that's not a concern for me.

Understood. But they need somebody who is good offensively. They have a slew of defensemen that are good defensively. Even with his warts, Byfuglien brings a much needed element.

He's not my first choice at all. But he'd definitely be a guy on my list of possibles.
- Jsaquella

I'd rather wait out the young d-men and see how they develop than trade multiple young prospects/picks for Buff.

I'd take a flyer out on him (no pun intended) if they could get him for very little. I'm just not sure a major market, big city and great food city will help Buff develop his game. Maybe guys like Pronger, Berube and Lappy could work him into shape.

In the end it's all up to Buff. If he wants to be great, he can be great, but judging from their last game, he hasn't turned that corner. He's still lazy, talented, obnoxious Big Buff.

It was...sarcasm???

But yes, you're right. Let's trade a young 19-year-old whose stock is at an all-time high for a player who's had little to no production in 45 NHL games whose stock is at an all-time low.
- jmatchett383

I don't recall suggesting a Laughton for Rundblad swap...

His overall game is inconsistent. He doesn't play well in his own end. I just don't like him. I'm not overly impressed with a guy who can just put up points. If I'm trading significant prospects, I want a good all around defenseman.

He's basically the offensive version of Grossmann. Grossmann is good defensively, but offers nothing in terms of offense. Buff is good offensively, but offers very little in terms of defense.
- PhillySportsGuy

He is also a great value. He gets paid slightly more then Streit and is among the top scoring defensman in the leauge.

I wouldn't do it below market value either. You're bringing up names like Gustafsson or even Rundblad. I might trade a guy like Cousins for Rundblad, but if I'm moving Laughton, it's got to be for a good, established defenseman.

Yes, I realize it would take more than Laughton to land a guy like Shattenkirk. But that's understandable.
- Jsaquella

I think we're on the same page. My only point is that, regardless of roster composition (to a point), if you have good players, you find a way to play them. If a clear upgrade can be made to the team (especailly at a position of weakness from a position of strength), then I'm not opposed.

Mood?

I don't recall suggesting a Laughton for Rundblad swap...
- Tomahawk

I might even look to shoot lower than EJ or Myers... Cam Fowler, Kulikov, Rundblad... any one of those guys would help to improve the overall quality of the d-corps.
- Tomahawk

While we were discussing what value Laughton could bring.

I'd rather wait out the young d-men and see how they develop than trade multiple young prospects/picks for Buff.

I'd take a flyer out on him (no pun intended) if they could get him for very little. I'm just not sure a major market, big city and great food city will help Buff develop his game. Maybe guys like Pronger, Berube and Lappy could work him into shape.

In the end it's all up to Buff. If he wants to be great, he can be great, but judging from their last game, he hasn't turned that corner. He's still lazy, talented, obnoxious Big Buff.
- PhillySportsGuy

I'm not saying to not wait on the young defensemen...but they're largely a year or two away at least, and maybe more like 3 or 4 years away.

The FA market is barren. Byfuglien should be an attractive name. He's not the only one.

Mood?
- Flyskippy

Ancient, with a case of being out of shape.