Couturier/Hamilton debate has been done here exhaustively, but Arctic Hockey recently did a head-to-head comparison of Couturier and Scheifele that had me wondering if given a choice between one of Strome, Scheifele, Zibanejad or Couturier, which one would I select if I had first dibs today?

I honestly don't know.
- Tomahawk

Couturier is really the only one who is relied upon to play big minutes against other team's best players. His offensive game has been nonexistent though.

With the exception of Yandle, those guys are much younger. There is reason to believe they will get better. Byfuglien is what he is at this point. Even Yandle is adequate in his own end. I haven't seen a ton of jets or Coyote games, but from what i've seen Yandle is better defensively than Byfuglien.

Coyotes play a defensive system, which really makes Yandles offensive numbers all the more impressive.
- PhillySportsGuy

That's why I'd prefer Yandle to Byfuglien. I've never said Byfuglien is the end all, be all. But a lot of folks dismiss him out of hand , because he's fat or perceived as lazy. But most "offensive" defensemen bring the same kind of concerns defensively.

That's why I'd prefer Yandle to Byfuglien. I've never said Byfuglien is the end all, be all. But a lot of folks dismiss him out of hand , because he's fat or perceived as lazy. But most "offensive" defensemen bring the same kind of concerns defensively.
- Jsaquella

Maybe he's good because he's fat, not in spite of it, lol. That's a hell of a lot of forward momentum when he gets going... and gravity working on those tree-trunk arms probably adds a few mph to the old slapper... and of course, the girth is great for blocking shots and screening goalies.

That's why I'd prefer Yandle to Byfuglien. I've never said Byfuglien is the end all, be all. But a lot of folks dismiss him out of hand , because he's fat or perceived as lazy. But most "offensive" defensemen bring the same kind of concerns defensively.
- Jsaquella

Most offensively defenseman have some trouble in their own end. That's why their offensive defenseman and not elite defenseman. Byfuglien has more than 'some trouble'

at 24 minutes per night, he'll be having a major impact on both team's transition games
- PhillySportsGuy

A lot of Byfuglien's defensive knocks come from playing in front of one of the most inconsistent goalies in the NHL, too.

Pavelectric sometimes refers to how often the light goes on behind him. I'm not hinting that Byfuglien's a good defensive player, but he does help in an area of massive concern for the Flyers. To me that's the bottom line. He's a huge upgrade in an area if massive need & the Flyers have several defensemen whose forte is defensive play

Most offensively defenseman have some trouble in their own end. That's why their offensive defenseman and not elite defenseman. Byfuglien has more than 'some trouble'
- PhillySportsGuy

You're exaggerating a bit there... yes, he roams, he gets caught up the ice, but a mobile 6'5 265 defender is a hell of obstacle to get around if you're an attacking forward, and with all that strength, he's one of the best porch-clearers currently in the NHL.

Most offensively defenseman have some trouble in their own end. That's why their offensive defenseman and not elite defenseman. Byfuglien has more than 'some trouble'
- PhillySportsGuy

I feel you're overstating Byfuglien's defensive shortcomings. It's not a strength, but he's also not Mike Green...& even if he was, to me, the benefits outweigh the worries, because if the team currently on hand

You're exaggerating a bit there... yes, he roams, he gets caught up the ice, but a mobile 6'5 265 defender is a hell of obstacle to get around if you're an attacking forward, and with all that strength, he's one of the best porch-clearers currently in the NHL.
- Tomahawk

I have one question for the people who want Byfuglien. Does he make this team a stanley cup contender this year?

Couturier is really the only one who is relied upon to play big minutes against other team's best players. His offensive game has been nonexistent though.
- PhillySportsGuy

right now his upside can be seen as a 3rd line center if he can find his offensive game he'll be even greater
he's only 20 lets see where's at offensively at 23ish?

right now his upside can be seen as a 3rd line center if he can find his offensive game he'll be even greater
he's only 20 lets see where's at offensively at 23ish?
- 2Real

Even if his upside is 50 points, he's still such an important player because of his defense. Especially when your biggest rival has Crosby and Malkin.

I have one question for the people who want Byfuglien. Does he make this team a stanley cup contender this year?
- PhillySportsGuy

No.

I don't want Byfuglien, but I wouldn't mind him. They could do a lot worse than Buff... and I would argue they already have by getting mixed up w/ Streit.

I have one question for the people who want Byfuglien. Does he make this team a stanley cup contender this year?
- PhillySportsGuy

I don't want Byfuglien, but playing Devil's Advocate I don't think you get him with the expectation that it makes you a contender this year. He has two more years, so you get him if you're looking to add offensive punch and physicality/size to the blueline on the medium term.

Even if his upside is 50 points, he's still such an important player because of his defense. Especially when your biggest rival has Crosby and Malkin.
- PhillySportsGuy

Couturier's been in the NHL since he was drafted, so he wins by default right now, but if one or more of Strome, Zibanejad or Schiefele turn into terrific two-way players? I'm not sure it will be so cut and dry then.

I feel you're overstating Byfuglien's defensive shortcomings. It's not a strength, but he's also not Mike Green...& even if he was, to me, the benefits outweigh the worries, because if the team currently on hand
- Jsaquella

I think Mike Green got hurt again because you typed his name on the Internet.

/he seems fragile, you see
//shows self out

No.

I don't want Byfuglien, but I wouldn't mind him. They could do a lot worse than Buff... and I would argue they already have by getting mixed up w/ Streit.
- Tomahawk

Ok. So my point is if the Flyers trade Coburn or Schenn as part of the deal, they will be in a worse position next year. Top 4 of Buff, Streit, Schenn and Grossmann. All this while trying to work in the young guys.

You could of course go the FA route and try to find a defensive dman, but that's a lot money committed to defense once again.

I think Mike Green got hurt again because you typed his name on the Internet.

/he seems fragile, you see
//shows self out
- johndewar

He's no DiPietro.

No.

I don't want Byfuglien, but I wouldn't mind him. They could do a lot worse than Buff... and I would argue they already have by getting mixed up w/ Streit.
- Tomahawk

That's my issue, they already acquired Streit to fill more or less the same role. They're comparable in that they've veteran defenders who're known for offensive punch and suspect defensive play. Personally, all else equal I'd prefer Buff, but Streit's already inked.

I don't think one guy is necessarily going to do it... even Pronger had good Kimmo and Carle to help carry the mail... if you put 35-year-old Pronger in with this current group, I dare say that things wouldn't exactly be too terribly different.
- Tomahawk

I would tend to disagree...if there's one guy who could be a difference maker, it would be a healthy Chris Pronger...his on ice game and his on/off ice leadership would be game changers imo.

His overall game is inconsistent. He doesn't play well in his own end. I just don't like him. I'm not overly impressed with a guy who can just put up points. If I'm trading significant prospects, I want a good all around defenseman.

He's basically the offensive version of Grossmann. Grossmann is good defensively, but offers nothing in terms of offense. Buff is good offensively, but offers very little in terms of defense.
- PhillySportsGuy

Sooooo pair him with Grossmann then, problem solved!

Sooooo pair him with Grossmann then, problem solved!
- exlund

Didn't you hear? Grossmann's terrible, old, broken down, and stinks. Worst defenseman in the league. We need to dump him ASAP.

I would tend to disagree...if there's one guy who could be a difference maker, it would be a healthy Chris Pronger...his on ice game and his on/off ice leadership would be game changers imo.
- exlund

Agreed. Having him to anchor a top pairing eases the burden on other defenders. For the flak our blueline gets, they really aren't bad defenders. They're just not guys you want to depend on to carry your top pairing.

Ok. So my point is if the Flyers trade Coburn or Schenn as part of the deal, they will be in a worse position next year. Top 4 of Buff, Streit, Schenn and Grossmann. All this while trying to work in the young guys.

You could of course go the FA route and try to find a defensive dman, but that's a lot money committed to defense once again.
- PhillySportsGuy

The group is a mess, no doubt. If I could, I'd get rid of everybody outside of Coburn, Luke Schenn and Gus, and slowly rebuild from there.

I'm not looking for them to take a wild stab at contention in the near future... I want them to build a real foundation of talent on the back-end to compliment what they have up front and in net... and then wait for the entire thing to come together as one.

That's why I'd prefer Yandle to Byfuglien. I've never said Byfuglien is the end all, be all. But a lot of folks dismiss him out of hand , because he's fat or perceived as lazy. But most "offensive" defensemen bring the same kind of concerns defensively.
- Jsaquella

Yes. I know I had concerns about Bryan Leetch when it was rumored he was Philly bound.

iPhone is working "here," yessss!!

We're talking about a guy who hasn't taken care of his body. One of his greatest assets is his skating. The decline may start sooner than you think.
- PhillySportsGuy

It has been reported that Buff came into camp slimmed down and more committed to working on his game...but many ignore things like that and choose to still think of him as a fat, lazy guy who has this and that issue...meanwhile, he's consistently been one of the top producing blueliners in the league.

Agreed. Having him to anchor a top pairing eases the burden on other defenders. For the flak our blueline gets, they really aren't bad defenders. They're just not guys you want to depend on to carry your top pairing.
- BulliesPhan87

Pronger would make this team a stanley cup contender. There is no replacement for a guy who can run the PP, match up against top lines, start the breakout and lead the team.