What? I keep waiting for a nice cleavage pic here Ogi.
- Elbows15

- Ogilthorpe2

2013 REIGNING, DEFENDING=MILLER TIME

I would have said Sota, but that guy is like the kid is who always asking, 'Can I play, Can I play". You can't get rid of him.
- Elbows15

What are we talking about here? Posters who have bagged the most swimsuit models (female, non-fat/handicapped).

- Ogilthorpe2

Yesssss. I mean if we are talking things we like.

What are we talking about here? Posters who have bagged the most swimsuit models (female, non-fat/handicapped).
- SotaPopinski

Yeah, that's it. Or most delusional. One of the two.

Yeah, that's it. Or most delusional. One of the two.
- Elbows15

Awww thanks, you're alright Elbows... no matter what everyone else here says about you

What? I keep waiting for a nice cleavage pic here Ogi.
- Elbows15

Awww thanks, you're alright Elbows... no matter what everyone else here says about you
- SotaPopinski

Gee thanks, My life is complete.

Andrew Shaw at Tuesday practice

"We all feed off each other. Tazer pushes us and we push him"

- SotaPopinski

great between that and the fat goalie pic people might get the wrong idea about us. Not that there's anythibg wrong with that

Andrew Shaw at Tuesday practice

"We all feed off each other. Tazer pushes us and we push him"

- philco28

There are a poopload of leaders on this team Philco. Either by example, verbal and even guys who keep the guys loose. Obviously its impossible to know, but from body language and reactions, it sure looks like these guys have fun playing together.

There are a poopload of leaders on this team Philco. Either by example, verbal and even guys who keep the guys loose. Obviously its impossible to know, but from body language and reactions, it sure looks like these guys have fun playing together.
- Elbows15

Sure does Elbows...but Tazer is the leader make no mistake, and for the 2nd year man Shaw to say what he did really resonated with me.

Another thing...after listening to all the interviews from today....two things stand out.

1. His teammates are happy for Shaw for the well deserved deal.

2. The overwhelming consensus is....65 rarely SHUTS UP

10 minutes of OT is about the same Saint. Call it a tie after that. You want that extra point, go get it. It will become like it was before OT where teams basically played for the tie the last 5 minutes or so of the game.
- Elbows15

They should do what we did as kids:

If the game is tied and going to OT, pull both goalies. But the teams are allowed to stack the pads in front of the net. Put the goalie stick diagonally in the net and hang the Catcher and blocker from the cross bar. Team that scores more goals in 4 minutes takes it.

Ahhhhhhh good ole times when no one would go in it. Equipment even had a few shut outs. Hence why none of us are currently playing in the NHL.

I think you will start to hear stuff after the circus trip.....I believe a bottom six veteran will be had.....watch Fiddler....and as Al mentioned Cammelieri from Calgary...although he may fit the 2C need...look at teams at the bottom of the WC and EC with players that have expiring contracts.
- UnnamedSource

If Pirri is not a Q guy, which I agree with that assesment, there is no way Cammaleri is.

Some stats that may only interest me but since I have the forum to share I will

1) Brandon Pirri's had a solid 4 games of individual possession metrics, which is good because he had a 3 game stretch that would have been horrible for the Oilers, let alone the Hawks. Hopefully he keeps progressing, but as of now he seems to be on the right track.

2) Toews leads the team in all 5v5 possession metrics (surprise, surprise) but is one of just two regulars with a PDO under 100, the other being Kane. It is probable that there will be an uptick in both of their 5v5 goal differentials. Kane's will most likely come from more goals, while Toews is a pretty safe bet to start being on the ice for less goals against.

3) The luckiest players on the team have been Pirri and Shaw. Pirri is likely at least partly responsible as an offensive threat for an increased on ice SH%, but during his poor defensive play a few games back, Crow really bailed him out and saved him some minuses. The on ice SV% when Shaw is on the ice is insanely high, and while he's good defensively, he's been even luckier than Pirri while on the ice in terms of goal tending, expect to see him get scored on a little more.

4) Duncan Keith get's 37% of his shots blocked, thought people might like that one. For comparison, Leddy gets about 28% blocked, and Seabs gets 37% blocked as well.

5) Marcus Kruger is a positive possession player, in spite of the fact he only starts 15% of his shifts in the ozone and nearly 50% in his own end. Really the ideal fourth line center. Allows Pirri and Shaw to start a lot of shifts in the ozone, which is valuable in many ways.

6) All nighter and more coffee than I care to count, but I'm finally done with my paper, so happy hump day ya'll

Some stats that may only interest me but since I have the forum to share I will

4) Duncan Keith get's 37% of his shots blocked, thought people might like that one. For comparison, Leddy gets about 28% blocked, and Seabs gets 37% blocked as well.

- rollpards19

Thanks for sharing the spoils of your work! Interesting to say the least about point #4, I think we all would have figured Keith led the D in shots blocked but really surprised that Seabrook is tied in that category. Probably doesn't seem that way because Keith tries to shoot quite a bit while Seabs seems to pick his spots. Not surprised Leddy is almost 10% more effective in getting shots through and we all know that he and Hjalmarsson have the highest % of shots find the back of the net. Of course Hjalmarsson doesn't take many shots but the staff should really look to get him to fire off more pucks.

You would think with block shot %'s like this that someone would work with Keith on timing and suggest the wrister more often (of course we all commented about him finally scoring, albeit on a limp wrist shot). We all know it's not the speed or heaviness of a shot but timing and placement (and element of surprise many times as well -- skate right, shoot left, etc etc). Have know many guys with really heavy shots that seldom were on target -- while guys like Nik Lidstrom made their living with a well-placed snap or wrist shot making it to the back of the cage.

Some stats that may only interest me but since I have the forum to share I will

1) Brandon Pirri's had a solid 4 games of individual possession metrics, which is good because he had a 3 game stretch that would have been horrible for the Oilers, let alone the Hawks. Hopefully he keeps progressing, but as of now he seems to be on the right track.

2) Toews leads the team in all 5v5 possession metrics (surprise, surprise) but is one of just two regulars with a PDO under 100, the other being Kane. It is probable that there will be an uptick in both of their 5v5 goal differentials. Kane's will most likely come from more goals, while Toews is a pretty safe bet to start being on the ice for less goals against.

3) The luckiest players on the team have been Pirri and Shaw. Pirri is likely at least partly responsible as an offensive threat for an increased on ice SH%, but during his poor defensive play a few games back, Crow really bailed him out and saved him some minuses. The on ice SV% when Shaw is on the ice is insanely high, and while he's good defensively, he's been even luckier than Pirri while on the ice in terms of goal tending, expect to see him get scored on a little more.

4) Duncan Keith get's 37% of his shots blocked, thought people might like that one. For comparison, Leddy gets about 28% blocked, and Seabs gets 37% blocked as well.

5) Marcus Kruger is a positive possession player, in spite of the fact he only starts 15% of his shifts in the ozone and nearly 50% in his own end. Really the ideal fourth line center. Allows Pirri and Shaw to start a lot of shifts in the ozone, which is valuable in many ways.

6) All nighter and more coffee than I care to count, but I'm finally done with my paper, so happy hump day ya'll
- rollpards19

This stuff interests me - thanks for bringing it to the board! I don't know a ton about some of these metrics, so I have a couple questions if you have the time and/or desire to answer them. What does PDO tell us? Is it similar to Corsi or Fenwick? I hear a lot of stuff about shooting percentage - does it usually revert to a league-wide mean or do some shooters tend to wait for a higher percentage shot? On SV% - do good defensive players help a goalie's SV% or do they limit goals against by limiting shots (or both)? Lastly, what do you think about the whole Maple Leafs deal - is there such a thing as "quality shots"?

Thanks again for bringing this stuff here.

If Pirri is not a Q guy, which I agree with that assesment, there is no way Cammaleri is.
- TrueGrit

I agree..but he is a veteran and Q may be open to it because of that....but pure speculation on my part.

This stuff interests me - thanks for bringing it to the board! I don't know a ton about some of these metrics, so I have a couple questions if you have the time and/or desire to answer them. What does PDO tell us? Is it similar to Corsi or Fenwick? I hear a lot of stuff about shooting percentage - does it usually revert to a league-wide mean or do some shooters tend to wait for a higher percentage shot? On SV% - do good defensive players help a goalie's SV% or do they limit goals against by limiting shots (or both)? Lastly, what do you think about the whole Maple Leafs deal - is there such a thing as "quality shots"?

Thanks again for bringing this stuff here.
- mohel

Of course. PDO is basically a measure of puck luck. (Quick note, this is all based on 5v5) It combines the save percentage and shooting percentage of a player when he is on the ice. These numbers almost always revert to 100 (or close to it). So for example, when Jonathan Toews is on the ice, his team scores on 9.4% of its shots. Conversely, the goalies save 89.6% of shots when he's on the ice. That adds up to 99, which is below the watermark of 100, so he'd be considered unlucky. Shaw's #'s are 10.3% and 96%. So even though at this moment Shaw has a great GF/GA at even strength, we can expect it to regress.

Some players, especially elite offensive players, have higher shooting percentages. The numbers used for PDO however are based on total shooting percentage, not just the individual. You can expect for an individual to shoot around his career average, and that varies from player to player. An example is Alex Steen, he's never shot this well and therefore we can expect his goal totals to start dropping.

But save percentage is not influenced by quality of defense, in my opinion based on the data available. On a team measure it certainly can, but the sample size is so small for individual players that it strongly regresses to the mean. I think we'd all agree that Hammer was better than Leddy defensively last year, plus he got to play with Toews a lot, yet he had a lower on ice save percentage than Nick, considerably. The team leader last year in on ice save percentage? None other than defensive stalwart Viktor Stalberg. So, limiting shots won't necessarily improve the save percentage, but the less shots you allow, its always better than allowing more shots, because it leaves less up to chance.

On the Maple Leafs, I really don't know. Every time I watch them play, they just get killed. And on paper, they're the 2nd worst possession team in the league. Shot quality was studied by a Leaf fan, and it turned out the difference in their shots compared to their opponents was about 6 inches closer, so pretty insignificant. I don't believe in shot quality on a team level, however I do on an individual, where the numbers are just starting to be looked at. But back on topic, if I had to bet one way I'd bet no playoffs (as currently constructed). The problem is the east sucks so they might get in, but I firmly believe in team possession metrics, and even though they've defied them for 65 games here, I think their day of reckoning is coming, and soon.

Thanks for sharing the spoils of your work! Interesting to say the least about point #4, I think we all would have figured Keith led the D in shots blocked but really surprised that Seabrook is tied in that category. Probably doesn't seem that way because Keith tries to shoot quite a bit while Seabs seems to pick his spots. Not surprised Leddy is almost 10% more effective in getting shots through and we all know that he and Hjalmarsson have the highest % of shots find the back of the net. Of course Hjalmarsson doesn't take many shots but the staff should really look to get him to fire off more pucks.

You would think with block shot %'s like this that someone would work with Keith on timing and suggest the wrister more often (of course we all commented about him finally scoring, albeit on a limp wrist shot). We all know it's not the speed or heaviness of a shot but timing and placement (and element of surprise many times as well -- skate right, shoot left, etc etc). Have know many guys with really heavy shots that seldom were on target -- while guys like Nik Lidstrom made their living with a well-placed snap or wrist shot making it to the back of the cage.
- savvyone-1

I honestly think some of its gotta be mental at this point. Seabs doesn't surprise me so much. When he has a lane, he can pick a spot with the best of them, but he also seems more inclined to just fire the puck without really looking, which isn't so bad, he's just trying to get it on net. But the problem we all have with Keith, is he sees the guy, pump fakes to try and move him, and STILL drills the shin pads, just seems so much worse

I honestly think some of its gotta be mental at this point. Seabs doesn't surprise me so much. When he has a lane, he can pick a spot with the best of them, but he also seems more inclined to just fire the puck without really looking, which isn't so bad, he's just trying to get it on net. But the problem we all have with Keith, is he sees the guy, pump fakes to try and move him, and STILL drills the shin pads, just seems so much worse
- rollpards19

This is just the funniest thing to me. It's like . . . OK, I SEE you there but I am just going to put the shot THROUGH you. As I said, have known a few guys with wicked shots but you know what? regardless of how hard/fast the shot, they still couldn't shoot it THROUGH someone's pads!

I wondered this before, does Keith wear glasses or need contacts? Some guys' depth perception is probably not as good as others.

In the end, I do believe it's timing and repetition. You have to train/work on the timing of the release and be able to see the lane for shooting and get the puck in that lane. Sort of like an old arcade shooting game. I really think that Keith needs to work on that in practice but I suspect he's too proud and the staff is too reluctant to have him do such a thing.

You would think a pro by now would have figured out how to get their shot through a shooting lane. And also by now, it's likely all mental with him. Which is why we see him taking more shots than anyone else, probably figures the more I launch the more chance I have of having SOMETHING happen.

I still say it's TV more than the fans.

A shootout gives them a finite window for a game: from 2 1/2 to 3 hours, depending on how it ends. With so many NHL games going to extra-time - about 25%, much more than any other sport - they don't want to worry about 2, 3, 4 overtime games eating into subsequent programming.
- StLBravesFan

NHLPA would never go for multiple OT's in the regular season.

Some stats that may only interest me but since I have the forum to share I will

1) Brandon Pirri's had a solid 4 games of individual possession metrics, which is good because he had a 3 game stretch that would have been horrible for the Oilers, let alone the Hawks. Hopefully he keeps progressing, but as of now he seems to be on the right track.

2) Toews leads the team in all 5v5 possession metrics (surprise, surprise) but is one of just two regulars with a PDO under 100, the other being Kane. It is probable that there will be an uptick in both of their 5v5 goal differentials. Kane's will most likely come from more goals, while Toews is a pretty safe bet to start being on the ice for less goals against.

3) The luckiest players on the team have been Pirri and Shaw. Pirri is likely at least partly responsible as an offensive threat for an increased on ice SH%, but during his poor defensive play a few games back, Crow really bailed him out and saved him some minuses. The on ice SV% when Shaw is on the ice is insanely high, and while he's good defensively, he's been even luckier than Pirri while on the ice in terms of goal tending, expect to see him get scored on a little more.

4) Duncan Keith get's 37% of his shots blocked, thought people might like that one. For comparison, Leddy gets about 28% blocked, and Seabs gets 37% blocked as well.

5) Marcus Kruger is a positive possession player, in spite of the fact he only starts 15% of his shifts in the ozone and nearly 50% in his own end. Really the ideal fourth line center. Allows Pirri and Shaw to start a lot of shifts in the ozone, which is valuable in many ways.

6) All nighter and more coffee than I care to count, but I'm finally done with my paper, so happy hump day ya'll
- rollpards19

To add to the mix...

#1. I think it was mentioned here Kane had an off the chart Corsi recently and it appears to me he has been dialed on high as well as Saad for the last few games. I wonder how much of Pirri's improvement are a factor of his mates being on fire.

That's not to say I notice him being off...

#4. Keith shoots more than the others and has more ice time.
As I wrote the other day his shot #'s are on an all time pace surpassing 2010 shot totals when he had 15 goals.

It took Keith 51 shots on goal to record his 1st goal of this season.

On Twitter@AlCimaglia

Of course. PDO is basically a measure of puck luck. (Quick note, this is all based on 5v5) It combines the save percentage and shooting percentage of a player when he is on the ice. These numbers almost always revert to 100 (or close to it). So for example, when Jonathan Toews is on the ice, his team scores on 9.4% of its shots. Conversely, the goalies save 89.6% of shots when he's on the ice. That adds up to 99, which is below the watermark of 100, so he'd be considered unlucky. Shaw's #'s are 10.3% and 96%. So even though at this moment Shaw has a great GF/GA at even strength, we can expect it to regress.

Some players, especially elite offensive players, have higher shooting percentages. The numbers used for PDO however are based on total shooting percentage, not just the individual. You can expect for an individual to shoot around his career average, and that varies from player to player. An example is Alex Steen, he's never shot this well and therefore we can expect his goal totals to start dropping.

But save percentage is not influenced by quality of defense, in my opinion based on the data available. On a team measure it certainly can, but the sample size is so small for individual players that it strongly regresses to the mean. I think we'd all agree that Hammer was better than Leddy defensively last year, plus he got to play with Toews a lot, yet he had a lower on ice save percentage than Nick, considerably. The team leader last year in on ice save percentage? None other than defensive stalwart Viktor Stalberg. So, limiting shots won't necessarily improve the save percentage, but the less shots you allow, its always better than allowing more shots, because it leaves less up to chance.

On the Maple Leafs, I really don't know. Every time I watch them play, they just get killed. And on paper, they're the 2nd worst possession team in the league. Shot quality was studied by a Leaf fan, and it turned out the difference in their shots compared to their opponents was about 6 inches closer, so pretty insignificant. I don't believe in shot quality on a team level, however I do on an individual, where the numbers are just starting to be looked at. But back on topic, if I had to bet one way I'd bet no playoffs (as currently constructed). The problem is the east sucks so they might get in, but I firmly believe in team possession metrics, and even though they've defied them for 65 games here, I think their day of reckoning is coming, and soon.
- rollpards19

But save percentage is not influenced by quality of defense, in my opinion based on the data available.

Agree because some of the best save % are goalies on teams that are poor defensively. Vokoun while he was in Florida is a good example.

So, limiting shots won't necessarily improve the save percentage, but the less shots you allow, its always better than allowing more shots, because it leaves less up to chance.

Yes again, and that argument has the same flaws as more shots on goal gives you a better chance of winning.

Yes in some ways, but losing teams outshoot winners on a regular basis especially if they were trailing big in the 2nd half of the game.

On Twitter@AlCimaglia