he'll play 48 this season after we trade him to colorado for landeskog
- 2Real

Actually I think they're gonna have to move hell and high water to get a player that makes him better because he certainly doesn't make those around him better like a real elite player does... Secondary player.

Actually I think they're gonna have to move hell and high water to get a player that makes him better because he certainly doesn't make those around him better like a real elite player does... Secondary player.
- JoeRussomanno

yea giroux would be great behind a true elite player

he never got that in the number of seasons he played in toronto?
- 2Real

I think that's one reason why he's regressed -- he cracked the NHL at 18, has never gotten that kind of instruction that could improve his game.

From my watching of the NHL, there aren't a ton of players who improve their game significantly, once they're in the league. After most guys mature physically, it isn't often that you see a player get better and better -- hate to say it, but that's one thing I do admire about Crosby, because he actually did.

heatley hasn't been elite since 06-07 do the math
- 2Real

and?

Prior to this season Giroux was a little over a point per game player over the past 3 years.

lets throw that out because Dany Heatly has not point up the same goals in 7 years and Giroux , like the rest of the team is off to a horrible start.

He quietly put up meaningless points... I don't mean to be brash but it is what it is. When they signed him last offseason I said he wouldn't live up to that contract... An 8th of the way into the season and so far he has a stupid injury and no goals.. He's over rated.
- JoeRussomanno

So the 105 points he put up total in that Season are meaningless? I know you're a smarter hockey man then that Joe.

That contract hasn't started yet. It kicks in next Season. And I'm quite sure that judging the contract hinges on more then just 12 games.

Look, I'm as disappointed in Giroux right now as anyone is. He is the guy you look to put the team on his back, and lead them out of this hole. I'm looking for a shift from him like he had against the Pens in the playoffs. Where he knocks Crosby on his ass, and then scores a goal. But it's no where to be found right now. He's been a perimeter player, who isn't making any plays.
And right now, how can Giroux as a leader and Captain, look a teammate in the eye, and tell them they have to do better? With the level of play that Giroux is at? How can Timonen do that? Which player on this team is going to step and say hey, follow me, this is how we get it done? It should be Giroux. He's the biggest disappointment of this Season so far, in my opinion.
But the 12 games of this Season doesn't define Giroux as a player, and it doesn't erase what he's done in the past. We'll see what he does in the future. Hopefully tonight.

They put way too many eggs in one basket.
- JoeRussomanno

it only looks that way now because Pronger was injured.

comparable to the Lindros trade. If #88 stays healthy and gets us a cup, then the trade was worth it. But you can't forecast injuries.

It's too bad that Luke Schenn has to clear waivers to be sent down.

Before anybody takes my head off, I'm not saying "I hate Luke Schenn" or "I think he's an AHL player" or "He can never help us."

He's just a player right now who looks like he could use a couple of weeks down there playing massive minutes, while working with Terry Murray -- who is one of the best teachers of defensemen I think the Flyers have ever had -- so he can get his game in order.

You can't do that at the NHL level, and in this case, what Schenn needs, to me, is to play a huge amount of minutes and then get some strong technical instruction.
- AllInForFlyers

I agree, but he's going to have to play his way out of it in the NHL, just like the rest of the team.

12 games into this season he is not playing like an elite player.

When he had 93 points in 77 games that long long 2 seasons ago he was playing as an elite player.

and?

Prior to this season Giroux was a little over a point per game player over the past 3 years.

lets throw that out because Dany Heatly has not point up the same goals in 7 years and Giroux , like the rest of the team is off to a horrible start.
- opeth_pa

Giroux has never scored more than 30 goals in a season yet
Heatley scored 40-50 a number of times

Giroux has never scored more than 100 points in a season
Heatley did is a few times

Giroux will never be better

12 games into this season he is not playing like an elite player.

When he had 93 points in 77 games that long long 2 seasons ago he was playing as an elite player.
- opeth_pa

No poop, he was also playing with Jagr and an on fire Hartnell. Hartnell sucks now and he doesn't really have chemistry with anyone, let alone play on a line with some one who can score (aside from Vinny, but that's only been a couple games).

I think that's one reason why he's regressed -- he cracked the NHL at 18, has never gotten that kind of instruction that could improve his game.

From my watching of the NHL, there aren't a ton of players who improve their game significantly, once they're in the league. After most guys mature physically, it isn't often that you see a player get better and better -- hate to say it, but that's one thing I do admire about Crosby, because he actually did.
- AllInForFlyers

Now that I can't agree with. Especially for defenseman. It's very common for young defenseman to improve by leaps and bounds as they get older and mature in the NHL.

Giroux has never scored more than 30 goals in a season yet
Heatley scored 40-50 a number of times

Giroux has never scored more than 100 points in a season
Heatley did is a few times

Giroux will never be better
- 2Real

Giroux also has not murdered anyone.

No poop, he was also playing with Jagr and an on fire Hartnell. Hartnell sucks now and he doesn't really have chemistry with anyone, let alone play on a line with some one who can score (aside from Vinny, but that's only been a couple games).
- feelingkettle

crosby can play with a crappy player like pascal dupuis and have him score

wtf can giroux do?

Giroux also has not murdered anyone.
- feelingkettle

yet

Giroux has never scored more than 30 goals in a season yet
Heatley scored 40-50 a number of times

Giroux has never scored more than 100 points in a season
Heatley did is a few times

Giroux will never be better
- 2Real

Heatley has played in 801 games
Claude Giroux has played in 345.

Heatley has 57 points in 66 playoff games
Giroux has 55 in 50.


Now I see the significance of this argument..

crosby can play with a crappy player like pascal dupuis and have him score

wtf can giroux do?
- 2Real

play with a crappy player like Hartnell and make him #6 in the league in goal scoring?

crosby can play with a crappy player like pascal dupuis and have him score

wtf can giroux do?
- 2Real

Good point..Scott Hartnell certainly didn't benefit from playing with him when he scored 37 that same season.

I just watched the fights again, fun to watch. Simmonds was on a seek and destroy mission. I have to say it was good to finally see some emotion. If it can pull this team together it was worth it.

hes day to day. quick turnaround tonight he'll prob be available next game.

regarding mez being in. kimmo needs to be the scratch
- Just5

Yes

I just watched the fights again, fun to watch. Simmonds was on a seek and destroy mission. I have to say it was good to finally see some emotion. If it can pull this team together it was worth it.
- LJF

I hope it has that effect, even though I'm not happy with some of it.

Now that I can't agree with. Especially for defenseman. It's very common for young defenseman to improve by leaps and bounds as they get older and mature in the NHL.
- MJL

I disagree -- they became more experienced in game situations, but they don't often become better in technical details about the game.

I think the easiest example is what Mark Alt is doing down there; he's learning the speed of the professional game but also receiving technical instruction at the level that Luke Schenn has likely not gotten in the NHL.

I remember when St. Louis sent Alex Pietrangelo down; they said it was obvious that he could stay in the NHL and play, but he needed technical work. I think it's the same with Schenn -- he's not going to be able to mask his issues with foot speed and skill limitations without being technically superior.

Heatley has played in 801 games
Claude Giroux has played in 345.

Heatley has 57 points in 66 playoff games
Giroux has 55 in 50.


Now I see the significance of this argument..
- opeth_pa

giroux 333 games .87 points/game
heatley 354 games (closest ending season) 1.10 points/game

giroux is nothing special

I just watched the fights again, fun to watch. Simmonds was on a seek and destroy mission. I have to say it was good to finally see some emotion. If it can pull this team together it was worth it.
- LJF

They need to bring that emotion back tonight. Maybe not quite the same "give up the game and go on a murderous rampage" energy, but something a little more desperate than what they've shown recently would be great.

Good point..Scott Hartnell certainly didn't benefit from playing with him when he scored 37 that same season.
- opeth_pa

wtf has scott hartnell done in the past 2 seasons

NOTHING

giroux 333 games .87 points/game
heatley 354 games (closest ending season) 1.10 points/game

giroux is nothing special
- 2Real

wait, what 350 game sample did you take from Heatley?