JVR needed a trade to mature...He wasnt doing poop here in philly. Im glad hes gone.
- PhillaBully

Thats simply inaccurate.

As Bill and I have pointed out multiple times.. JvR (prior to his injury plagued season) had put up very good numbers.. 30+ goals 30+ assists over his 82 previous games... He was inconsistent. But thats natural for big forwards. Theres a whole host of similar comparisons.

He was statistically our #2 forward the last year and a half of two seasons he was here.

That's a matter of opinion. What type of D man would you want?
- MJL

What we sorely lacked.. a young puck mover...

I personally wanted him packaged in a deal. I would rather over pay for a guy like Enstrom or a player of his ilk, than "settle" for Schenn.

But what about.

The "facts"

Weber, Chara, need me to keep going...
- JW98FlyerFan

There's a lot of them. And there's also a number of top pair defensive defenseman who don't bring a lot of offense and has been over the years. And there's no doubt that the League is moving towards defenseman who are more mobile and with puck skills. As it's a passing possession game these days. That doesn't mean that Schenn can't develop into a top pairing compliment for a #1 defenseman on a top pairing.

Didn't he pop blake because blake came out and said downie shouldn't be allowed to play in the nhl after the mccammond hit?
- twotoekenn

If that's the case, I'm not sure a sucker punch is a good way to prove him wrong.

Regardless it's still inexcusable.
- MJL

Yeah, and RG III didn't come in shape for Dallas season...Seriously, that is what you are saying...

Schenn was in shape for LAVI's system...He is not in Shape for CHIEF's system...and he is not the fastest guy in the world, so that is a big change...

If you ever ran in your life you would know the one rule on running, speed...use it or lose it...skating is the same way...you need to use it or it is not going to be there...

That's a matter of opinion. There's plenty of D men who play 20 minutes a night in defensvie situations. Are you seriously asking me how many top pair shutdown D men there are? It seems as though you are suggesting that there aren't any?
- MJL

Im talking top pairing shutdown d-men like you said. How many are there... who are they.

In order to be a top pairing guy in todays game, you need to have a dynamic make up... Its just the evolution of the game.

Pre-lockout.. Schenn would absolutely fit the bill as a prospective top pair shutdown guy. But those days are lonngg gone.

But what about.

The "facts"
- flyer_nutter

The facts are, Burke ate Holmgren's lunch.

What we sorely lacked.. a young puck mover...

I personally wanted him packaged in a deal. I would rather over pay for a guy like Enstrom or a player of his ilk, than "settle" for Schenn.
- jak521

That player has to be available to get him. I don't see many young top puck movin defenseman being dealt.

Weber, Chara, need me to keep going...
- JW98FlyerFan

Weber and Chara are routinely among the top offensive producing d-men in the game. They are absolutely not defensive dmen. They excel in all aspects defensively.

That player has to be available to get him. I don't see many young top puck movin defenseman being dealt.
- MJL

Every player has his cost.. I understand they have to be available.

Thats simply inaccurate.

As Bill and I have pointed out multiple times.. JvR (prior to his injury plagued season) had put up very good numbers.. 30+ goals 30+ assists over his 82 previous games... He was inconsistent. But thats natural for big forwards. Theres a whole host of similar comparisons.

He was statistically our #2 forward the last year and a half of two seasons he was here.
- jak521

Stop being a jvr apoligist. He was MIA for games at a time. projection dont count for poop.

So hype doesn't exist in hockey world?
- Flyersgod

Is that what I said?

What we sorely lacked.. a young puck mover...

I personally wanted him packaged in a deal. I would rather over pay for a guy like Enstrom or a player of his ilk, than "settle" for Schenn.
- jak521

We had colburn, Carle and Kimmo...we didn't know Carle was going to run away the first day of UFA for a rediculous amount of money.

All ifs Joe. McGinn has played a handful of NHL games. If you don't want to look at the numbers, let's look at skill level. Either way you slice it, Downie is a top 9 forward in this League.
- MJL

K let's say for sake of argument he's a top whatever forward... Wouldn't you agree that the flyers need to build and establish a "winning identity"? And if so does downie fit into that mold with his mediocre stat sheet, injury history and lack of discipline? This team has an abundance of forwards that don't back check well and now have not only added more of that to the mix but someone who can put then shorthanded on a regular and unneeded basis.

Im talking top pairing shutdown d-men like you said. How many are there... who are they.

In order to be a top pairing guy in todays game, you need to have a dynamic make up... Its just the evolution of the game.

Pre-lockout.. Schenn would absolutely fit the bill as a prospective top pair shutdown guy. But those days are lonngg gone.
- jak521

Andy McDonald, Joe Girardi, Travis Hamonic. And there's been plenty in the past. You don't have to be a dynamic player to be a top pairing guy. That is certainly the trend in the League, but it is not an absolute. Players such as Willie Mitchell and Brooks Orpik have been incredibly instrumental and important to those teams that won the Cup in the past.

Weber and Chara are routinely among the top offensive producing d-men in the game. They are absolutely not defensive dmen. They excel in all aspects defensively.
- jak521

Not when they started...Chara was not the beast he is today when he was with OTT...he GREW into that role...

Great...but with a #2 pick who was inconsistent for Philly, do you think you were getting lidstrom back in a trade...hell no...they got exactly what JVR was...a project...
- JW98FlyerFan

he was what? 22, 23? coming off of only 3 seasons in the NHL with the last one being injury plagued of course. People just expect players to come into the NHL and be instant stars. Yes, that may happen with some but most others take time and patience. He showed progress every season. .449 PPG, .533, .558, .667 and 1.080. I will never like that the Flyers moved him. Never. But like I said earlier, I try to separate Schenn from who the Flyers traded for him. I like Schenn

K let's say for sake of argument he's a top whatever forward... Wouldn't you agree that the flyers need to build and establish a "winning identity"? And if so does downie fit into that mold with his mediocre stat sheet, injury history and lack of discipline? This team has an abundance of forwards that don't back check well and now have not only added more of that to the mix but someone who can put then shorthanded on a regular and unneeded basis.
- JoeRussomanno

Teams evolve and develop over time. Young players and young teams develop that "winning identity" You said the right words. Build and establish.

alright folks...on my way to grab a six'r and get ready to watch Downie put one in the net on a L. schenn assit...enjoy the banter...LET'S GO FLYERS!!!!

Yeah, and RG III didn't come in shape for Dallas season...Seriously, that is what you are saying...

Schenn was in shape for LAVI's system...He is not in Shape for CHIEF's system...and he is not the fastest guy in the world, so that is a big change...

If you ever ran in your life you would know the one rule on running, speed...use it or lose it...skating is the same way...you need to use it or it is not going to be there...
- JW98FlyerFan

Laviolette's system required the same amount of skating, if not more. Especially for defenseman. What prevented him from skating in the off season?

K let's say for sake of argument he's a top whatever forward... Wouldn't you agree that the flyers need to build and establish a "winning identity"? And if so does downie fit into that mold with his mediocre stat sheet, injury history and lack of discipline? This team has an abundance of forwards that don't back check well and now have not only added more of that to the mix but someone who can put then shorthanded on a regular and unneeded basis.
- JoeRussomanno

Isn't it possible they aquired Downie to lessen the blow of trading a Simmonds or Hartnell to address other pressing needs the team has?

There have been rumors the Flyers have had prolonged talks with EDM and WPG off and on for months. Ive got to imagine more moves with be coming this season.

Pre-lockout.. Schenn would absolutely fit the bill as a prospective top pair shutdown guy. But those days are lonngg gone.
- jak521

This is true. The days of Daneyko, Foote and Hatcher are over... rule-changes took the stay-at-home defender's ability to dominate in their own zone away from them.

If that's the case, I'm not sure a sucker punch is a good way to prove him wrong.
- Scoob

https://www.google.com/ur...g2=icVa-6tef0ixZPiuqR_8PA

Laviolette's system required the same amount of skating, if not more. Especially for defenseman. What prevented him from skating in the off season?
- MJL

All the ice melted, duh.