bro teams always draft guys in the top 5 as a longterm plan to trick other teams into thinking theyre good
- Crimsoninja

Hmmmm.... we kind of did that w/ Pitkanen and JvR didn't we...

Also, in Toronto, he had 4 seasons, 1 at 21:30 and 1 22:30, then 1 at 16:50 and 1 at 16:02 and they fip flopped year to year...sounds like they didn't know how to use him, but the key was he played almost every game...can't say that for too many of the D men we have had on the team...that is one thing that is not on the stats sheet, luke doesn't (knock on wood) get hurt and miss games...
- JW98FlyerFan

Listen.. I like Luke Schenn. I think he is a solid strong as an ox, dman. But I dont think he was EVER worth JvR.. and i dont think he will ever be worth JVR.

Top line scoring wingers are worth a hell of a lot more than middling defensive d-men.

Listen.. I like Luke Schenn. I think he is a solid strong as an ox, dman. But I dont think he was EVER worth JvR.. and i dont think he will ever be worth JVR.

Top line scoring wingers are worth a hell of a lot more than middling defensive d-men.
- jak521

Before we crown JvR a true 1st-line-quality player, let's see if he, and the Leafs, don't come crashing back down to earth again like they did last year.

Absolutely agree. More so with d-men actually.

The problem though, is you have to show flashes of a dynamic skill set.. and while Schenn has shown capable of being a steady NHL d-dman, he hasnt shown ANYTHING dynamic.
- jak521

He is making 3.6m against the cap, not 7+ million like the other high profile D men...His game isn't "flash" it's grit, hard hits...move guys off the puck...and play every damn night...he is only give you 20 points a season...he is goign to shoot 100x's a season and hopefully you get some rebounds off the shot...

And guess what...he has more goals this year than G, Mezy, Kimmo, and hartnell combined...

He is what he is...and i am ok with that...unfortunately the rest of the team is not playing like what they ARE...at least i hope they are not...otherwise we are in trouble...

Absolutely agree. More so with d-men actually.

The problem though, is you have to show flashes of a dynamic skill set.. and while Schenn has shown capable of being a steady NHL d-dman, he hasnt shown ANYTHING dynamic.
- jak521

I disagree that you have to show flashes of a dynamic skillset. Not for the type of player that Schenn is. He was never expected to be, and never will be a dynamic player. That's part of the problem. A goal scoring winger is more sexy and more flashy then a shutdown defensive defenseman. But both types of players are important to a team.

Listen.. I like Luke Schenn. I think he is a solid strong as an ox, dman. But I dont think he was EVER worth JvR.. and i dont think he will ever be worth JVR.

Top line scoring wingers are worth a hell of a lot more than middling defensive d-men.
- jak521

And I like JVR and hated the trade when it happened, but we were bloated with forwards and Coots was coming in too...we traded from a position of excess at forward...with a clear lack on D...and if you recall, JVR was not setting the world on fire and was a train wreck on some nights...the potential was there, be he usually had a very short leash...so when the flyers looked around they thought they could move JVR and get a solid D man that could play every night...and one that may have some long term higher up side in their system...

And I like JVR and hated the trade when it happened, but we were bloated with forwards and Coots was coming in too...we traded from a position of excess at forward...with a clear lack on D...and if you recall, JVR was not setting the world on fire and was a train wreck on some nights...the potential was there, be he usually had a very short leash...so when the flyers looked around they thought they could move JVR and get a solid D man that could play every night...and one that may have some long term higher up side in their system...
- JW98FlyerFan

You're dead on with your viewpoint of the trade.

Listen.. I like Luke Schenn. I think he is a solid strong as an ox, dman. But I dont think he was EVER worth JvR.. and i dont think he will ever be worth JVR.

Top line scoring wingers are worth a hell of a lot more than middling defensive d-men.
- jak521

It's the perfect storm of suck. You have the Flyers through 11 games displaying offensive ineptitude on a historic level, couple that with JVR tearing it up, and L. Schenn getting 6th dman minutes and it couldn't look any worse.

Listen.. I like Luke Schenn. I think he is a solid strong as an ox, dman. But I dont think he was EVER worth JvR.. and i dont think he will ever be worth JVR.

Top line scoring wingers are worth a hell of a lot more than middling defensive d-men.
- jak521

Honestly I really try to separate the two. I loved Schenn last year. I still hope he gets back to that player. he was a fave of mine last year. that doesn't change the fact that I cringe at seeing JVR on Toronto. Absolutely cringe.

Listen.. I like Luke Schenn. I think he is a solid strong as an ox, dman. But I dont think he was EVER worth JvR.. and i dont think he will ever be worth JVR.

Top line scoring wingers are worth a hell of a lot more than middling defensive d-men.
- jak521

The problem is that you've pigeon holed Schenn as a middling D man. If Schenn reaches what I think his potential is. Which is a top pair shutdown defensive defenseman. That player is worth more then a top line scoring winger. Wing is the least important position in the game.

JVR needed a trade to mature...He wasnt doing poop here in philly. Im glad hes gone.

Honestly I really try to separate the two. I loved Schenn last year. I still hope he gets back to that player. he was a fave of mine last year. that doesn't change the fact that I cringe at seeing JVR on Toronto. Absolutely cringe.
- nastyflyergirl

What do you say about Patrick Sharp?

And don't worry, a few more weeks and Luke will not be an issue...He is under the Chief's gun right now for not being hockey ready...Hartnell never got to be Hockey ready last year he was so out of shape...there are some breaks in the schedule later around the olympics and with the skating practices Chief has been running his legs will get there...

What do you say about Patrick Sharp?

And don't worry, a few more weeks and Luke will not be an issue...He is under the Chief's gun right now for not being hockey ready...Hartnell never got to be Hockey ready last year he was so out of shape...there are some breaks in the schedule later around the olympics and with the skating practices Chief has been running his legs will get there...
- JW98FlyerFan

Honestly, If that is true that L. Schenn didn't do the work and didn't come in in good enough shape, that pisses me off. Because there is no reason for that.

JVR needed a trade to mature...He wasnt doing poop here in philly. Im glad hes gone.
- PhillaBully

i wouldn't say I am glad he is gone as he is developing the talent we saw on some nights, but I am glad w have a very solid D-Man that isn't overpaid and killing us on the cap like some of them are...

Oh man now that's something I did totally forget about. Thanks for the memory! It looked like such a slow, weak punch to blow up Blake's eye like that
- eayost

Didn't he pop blake because blake came out and said downie shouldn't be allowed to play in the nhl after the mccammond hit?

The problem is that you've pigeon holed Schenn as a middling D man. If Schenn reaches what I think his potential is. Which is a top pair shutdown defensive defenseman. That player is worth more then a top line scoring winger. Wing is the least important position in the game.
- MJL

MJL.. I wanna know how many top pair shutdown d-dman there are in the league.. You keep claiming thats what he will be.

NAME 1.. please.. for the sake of my sanity. You have dodged this question about 10 times.

And I like JVR and hated the trade when it happened, but we were bloated with forwards and Coots was coming in too...we traded from a position of excess at forward...with a clear lack on D...and if you recall, JVR was not setting the world on fire and was a train wreck on some nights...the potential was there, be he usually had a very short leash...so when the flyers looked around they thought they could move JVR and get a solid D man that could play every night...and one that may have some long term higher up side in their system...
- JW98FlyerFan

But thats the problem right there. We traded JvR for the wrong type of d-man.. As big a fan of JvR that I am, I have said over and over that I wouldnt be opposed to moving him for the right player.

Honestly, If that is true that L. Schenn didn't do the work and didn't come in in good enough shape, that pisses me off. Because there is no reason for that.
- MJL

Yeah...well that is how it goes...Talk to Jonesy about the heavy conditioning he did before the seasons started

It is a different system and they didn't prepare for this system in the preseason..AKA moron move by management...so luke's conditioning doesn't fit Chief's system...you can't just throw a switch and say, he you need to skate faster and harder know becasue Chief said so...his conditioning worked for lavi's system...

Honestly, If that is true that L. Schenn didn't do the work and didn't come in in good enough shape, that pisses me off. Because there is no reason for that.
- MJL

what was being said was he came into camp in shape but not skating wise.

MJL.. I wanna know how many top pair shutdown d-dman there are in the league.. You keep claiming thats what he will be.

NAME 1.. please.. for the sake of my sanity. You have dodged this question about 10 times.
- jak521

That's a matter of opinion. There's plenty of D men who play 20 minutes a night in defensvie situations. Are you seriously asking me how many top pair shutdown D men there are? It seems as though you are suggesting that there aren't any?

what was being said was he came into camp in shape but not skating wise.
- nastyflyergirl

Regardless it's still inexcusable.

But thats the problem right there. We traded JvR for the wrong type of d-man.. As big a fan of JvR that I am, I have said over and over that I wouldnt be opposed to moving him for the right player.
- jak521

Great...but with a #2 pick who was inconsistent for Philly, do you think you were getting lidstrom back in a trade...hell no...they got exactly what JVR was...a project...

But thats the problem right there. We traded JvR for the wrong type of d-man.. As big a fan of JvR that I am, I have said over and over that I wouldnt be opposed to moving him for the right player.
- jak521

That's a matter of opinion. What type of D man would you want?

So hyped at the age of 16-17 to increase trade value at the age of 20-22?

Yeah, that makes sense.
- Tomahawk

So hype doesn't exist in hockey world?

That's a matter of opinion. There's plenty of D men who play 20 minutes a night in defensvie situations. Are you seriously asking me how many top pair shutdown D men there are? It seems as though you are suggesting that there aren't any?
- MJL

Weber, Chara, need me to keep going...