I agree...I just think Gillis is putting off the inevitable. He flubbed the Schneider/Luongo situation. Yes he got a first round pick for Schneider but shot himself in the foot by telling everyone Luongo won't be back. He lost any leverage he had and got the bare minimum in return for a potential franchise goal tender.
- UnnamedSource

Gillis has made more bad trades than good - Booth (in), Ballard (in), Schneider (out), and Hodgson (out). His draft record is poor too. His best move this season was claiming Stanton off waivers from us.

I don't mind the Canucks, but I wonder how this guy still has a job.

....And he is the most important player on the team.
- Al

By far. Although Kesler is a bit of a whiner he can play centre and wing, PP and PK, he's good defensively and on faceoffs, and he can put respectable points up.

Too bad he has two years left on his deal. He would look nice in the 2C slot with an Indianhead jersey.
- Return of the Roar

Kesler is injury prone. I'd rather have Bolland back before taking on Kesler, the champion of divers.

I truly believe in the possession metrics as an indicator of future success. That's not to a say a team like Toronto, who possesses both elite finishing and very good goaltending, can't be successful. Often, those who believe that numbers like Fenwick and Corsi are the best indicator of future success (like me), chalk up a high shooting or save percentage to simple variance, and expect it to regress to a player's career average, or league average in terms of save %. There have been arguments, from mostly Toronto fans, but also people who are anti-stat, that Toronto only gives up shots from the outside, while being patient and only shooting when there is a real chance to score. A Leaf fan then did a study to see if the Leafs were attempting shots from closer to the net than their opponents, and the conclusion was they were, but it was by about six inches (based on NHL shot tracking data, while maybe not perfect, has to be at least close). So, do I think the Leafs are a bad team, no. I think they're probably a bottom seeded playoff team. Do I think they can win the Cup, not a shot in heck.

Also thanks for the kind words. I know I like it here on this board because it provides me with different views on the game, and isn't the point of sports really to bring people together?
- rollpards19

I expected more when I saw the Leafs...I wasn't impressed at all and I tweeted same.

James Mirtle who covers the team and is a #'s guy as well quickly responded and said the Leafs are a bad matchup when playing Chgo.

#'s said so and it sure seemed so as well.

I agree...I just think Gillis is putting off the inevitable. He flubbed the Schneider/Luongo situation. Yes he got a first round pick for Schneider but shot himself in the foot by telling everyone Luongo won't be back. He lost any leverage he had and got the bare minimum in return for a potential franchise goal tender.
- UnnamedSource

Gillis should have learned from the Huet and Khabby situation - we had over 11mil in two goaltenders - we wanted to move khabby at the time - but luckily we didn't, because Khabby played pretty well that year when he was healthy.

Kesler is injury prone. I'd rather have Bolland back before taking on Kesler, the champion of divers.
- EKolb13

Kesler/Bolland - both injury prone really. I think Kesler gives you much more offensive upside though.

I suspect a lot of the shenanigans were inspired by AV. Probably see less diving, whining, etc under Torts.

Kesler/Bolland - both injury prone really. I think Kesler gives you much more offensive upside though.

I suspect a lot of the shenanigans were inspired by AV. Probably see less diving, whining, etc under Torts.
- Return of the Roar

Good point. Let's see where that's at when the season ends.

Gillis has made more bad trades than good - Booth (in), Ballard (in), Schneider (out), and Hodgson (out). His draft record is poor too. His best move this season was claiming Stanton off waivers from us.

I don't mind the Canucks, but I wonder how this guy still has a job.
- DarthKane

I dont understand why he let M. Raymond go? raymond signed for 1mil and has 5goals and 6 assists. Very nice

I disagree - It is never good to go to rebuild, but face it - even when they were the President's cup winner, they were a flawed team. If the fans are that nieve (sp) to think the Sedins are the only players to keep, then you sign them. But I would think that some of them understand that it is time to rebuild there. Gillis just bought 4 more years of being a good team. That is all.
- powerenforcer

It's only good to rebuild when you have the support from ownership and the buy in with the fan base. Their window for a Stanley Cup has nearly closed...meaning there is always an outside chance. I guess it is difficult to part with the face....in the case faces of the franchise but Buffalo was able to score a big return for Vanek imagine what you could get for 2 Sedins....and if you decided to break them up even one could bring a big return.

Kesler/Bolland - both injury prone really. I think Kesler gives you much more offensive upside though.

I suspect a lot of the shenanigans were inspired by AV. Probably see less diving, whining, etc under Torts.
- Return of the Roar

Kesler was a monster in the playoffs during the 2010-11 season against the Hawks and next opponent. And was too beatup to be a dominant figure for the next two series.

Kelser also played fairly well with Kane during the Olympics

By far. Although Kesler is a bit of a whiner he can play centre and wing, PP and PK, he's good defensively and on faceoffs, and he can put respectable points up.
- DarthKane

Torts has him playing on right wing this year and based on my fantasy stats...he's been very good.

I think if getting deeply into the analytics makes the sport more enjoyable for you that's great.

I traded for a living since the 80's and what little is left of mind works by identifying patterns, looking to data etc. but with hockey I don't rely on stats etct to establish an opinion.

The key point you made, is that you watch the game and establish a position and then look to the stats to confirm. In my view you are using the data to support a conclusion but to not make a conclusion and that is the way they should be used...As a tool.

But some that haven't given themselves a chance to really know how to watch a game. or those that can't, look to analytics to give them a conclusion before they make one themselves.

The data has gotten better but unless consistent it isn't very reliable and hockey by its very nature has more variables than other major sports.

If I watch a game and conclude Keith had a bad night....Even if his Corsi or whatever else is good I write he had an off game.

Some people appreciate my opinions and others look to contradict them by citing analytics when they fit.

That's their right and fortunately I can write what I feel.
- Al

Thanks Al. I know in that example I used to examples that confirmed what I was thinking, maybe because I found what I wanted to find, and that makes it dangerous. I totally agree there is a right way to watch a hockey game, and I think there are plenty of people who know how to do it on both sides of the aisle. The article that really got me to support the stats for an individual player comparing Alex Semin and Zach Parise. At the time, I thought of Semin as a less talented version of Ovechkin (though not by much) and Parise as a talented player, but also as one who does the "little things" to help his team win, as opposed to Semin, who had developed a reputation as "floater" and a guy who isn't a winner. If you had asked me two years ago who I would have rather had, Parise would have been my answer undoubtedly, and just because I went to camp at Shattuck as a kid.

But after reading an article that showed, there was really no difference in their possession metrics, that both seemed to drive play, but neither at the level of elite 2 way centers, and that due to media bias, and, unfortunately and ignorantly on my part, nationality, I'd judged a player I'd seen a handful of times, and let every little mistake he made feed my confirmation bias as a lazy, losing player. Since that article, every Wild or Carolina game, I almost solely watch Parise or Semin when they are on the ice (except against the Hawks, but I still make an effort to watch them) and have noticed that I agree with the numbers, Parise doesn't do more "little things" than Semin. In fact, their play on the boards is very similar, both are responsible defensively, and talented (albeit in different ways) offensively. I think this is a fantastic example of how these "advanced" (such a bad word, really its still just counting) stats took a knowledgable hockey fan's opinion, made him question maybe what his eyes were seeing and his ears were hearing, and really watch the game more closely, and for that reason has a better understanding of the game.

Why I believe in team possession stats can be summed up by this link http://www.habseyesonthep...a-visual-guide-to-fenwick

I think we're all fortunate that you have the platform to write and express your opinions, keep up the good work and I'll keep reading.

Gillis has made more bad trades than good - Booth (in), Ballard (in), Schneider (out), and Hodgson (out). His draft record is poor too. His best move this season was claiming Stanton off waivers from us.

I don't mind the Canucks, but I wonder how this guy still has a job.
- DarthKane

Gillis is in so deep now after signing the twins that he'll never get out. He'll get canned and leave the wreckage for someone else.

Kesler was a monster in the playoffs during the 2010-11 season against the Hawks and next opponent. And was too beatup to be a dominant figure for the next two series.

Kelser also played fairly well with Kane during the Olympics
- Topshelf2010

That was on the only playoff Toews has ever been outplayed by his matchup center, and Kesler was somehow even better against Nashville in the second round. He was unquestionably one of the best players in the league that year, but injuries have really come back to hurt him. He's the engine of the Canucks and I hate him, but he's a hell of a hockey player

I dont understand why he let M. Raymond go? raymond signed for 1mil and has 5goals and 6 assists. Very nice
- Topshelf2010

That was an odd move. The fans in Vancouver we tired of him but that's more because he didn't live up to his hype. I always equated Raymond as Vancouver's Frolik. Except the coaching staff in Vancouver didn't find a way to use him like Q did with Frolik.

Gillis is in so deep now after signing the twins that he'll never get out. He'll get canned and leave the wreckage for someone else.
- rtang415

While Kesler is a good player, I do not want that diving whiny sack of poop anywhere near the team I root for. I even have a hard time cheering for that waste of space when he dons the USA jersey. While I despise those dirty cheap shot artist freak twins. I could have a stellar season with them. My skating isn't the best but I can get to the net and Edzo taught me to have me stick on the ice.

Oh, and Happy Friday gents!

McNeil a -3 and A. Broadhurst a -2 last night for the Hogs.

3 days off between games sucks.

Thanks Al. I know in that example I used to examples that confirmed what I was thinking, maybe because I found what I wanted to find, and that makes it dangerous. I totally agree there is a right way to watch a hockey game, and I think there are plenty of people who know how to do it on both sides of the aisle. The article that really got me to support the stats for an individual player comparing Alex Semin and Zach Parise. At the time, I thought of Semin as a less talented version of Ovechkin (though not by much) and Parise as a talented player, but also as one who does the "little things" to help his team win, as opposed to Semin, who had developed a reputation as "floater" and a guy who isn't a winner. If you had asked me two years ago who I would have rather had, Parise would have been my answer undoubtedly, and just because I went to camp at Shattuck as a kid.

But after reading an article that showed, there was really no difference in their possession metrics, that both seemed to drive play, but neither at the level of elite 2 way centers, and that due to media bias, and, unfortunately and ignorantly on my part, nationality, I'd judged a player I'd seen a handful of times, and let every little mistake he made feed my confirmation bias as a lazy, losing player. Since that article, every Wild or Carolina game, I almost solely watch Parise or Semin when they are on the ice (except against the Hawks, but I still make an effort to watch them) and have noticed that I agree with the numbers, Parise doesn't do more "little things" than Semin. In fact, their play on the boards is very similar, both are responsible defensively, and talented (albeit in different ways) offensively. I think this is a fantastic example of how these "advanced" (such a bad word, really its still just counting) stats took a knowledgable hockey fan's opinion, made him question maybe what his eyes were seeing and his ears were hearing, and really watch the game more closely, and for that reason has a better understanding of the game.

Why I believe in team possession stats can be summed up by this link http://www.habseyesonthep...a-visual-guide-to-fenwick

I think we're all fortunate that you have the platform to write and express your opinions, keep up the good work and I'll keep reading.
- rollpards19

Thanks and for what its worth you have the right handle on things.

Interesting but not a shock about Parise and Semin....I heard similar about Semin before he signed his new deal.

Interesting how the gate swings both ways....

Fantasy wise Toews and Kane are in the top 10 forwards but Hossa who imo has been better all around than both isn't in the top 20 yahoo rankings I saw the other day.

A player with elite talent like Backstrom is really underrated even though he plays on the East coast.

Also funny how little the records of West vs. East have been discussed but if it would be the opposite I'm sure it would be constantly talked about.

Fantasy wise Toews and Kane are in the top 10 forwards but Hossa who imo has been better all around than both isn't in the top 20 yahoo rankings I saw the other day.

A player with elite talent like Backstrom is really underrated even though he plays on the East coast.

Also funny how little the records of West vs. East have been discussed but if it would be the opposite I'm sure it would be constantly talked about.
- Al

Sean McIndoe wrote an article about this exact subject a few weeks ago.

http://www.grantland.com/...better-eastern-conference

With a mainstream hockey media focused on the East, it doesn't surprise me that this kind of stuff gets brushed under the rug as you say.

3 days off between games sucks.
- DarthKane

These periods certainly drag on, and it's weird because several of the Hawks' divisional opponents have played as little as 10 (STL) or 11 games (COL), while the Hawks have played 13.

Sean McIndoe wrote an article about this exact subject a few weeks ago.

http://www.grantland.com/...better-eastern-conference

With a mainstream hockey media focused on the East, it doesn't surprise me that this kind of stuff gets brushed under the rug as you say.
- prd797

Thanks and always knew there was a big bias....But at some point you would hope things would balance out especially if not writing about individual teams or players.

....Not to mention the easier path the East has with much shorter travel for the East Coast teams.

These periods certainly drag on, and it's weird because several of the Hawks' divisional opponents have played as little as 10 (STL) or 11 games (COL), while the Hawks have played 13.
- prd797

November will be different and after the mid point of this month the road games pick up a great deal.