Thats all I hope for as well, but from the looks of it so far, I dont think that will be the case.. Cross our fingers
- jak521

Even if Schenn pans out to be a solid dman, i think JVR's ceiling is higher and I believe he will reach it. These guys are always so young an people expect immediate results because some guy another team drafted did.

He's currently 6th amongst Flyers defencemen in TOI.

Right now, I'm winning this.
- Atomic Wedgie

But thats because they havent been playing with the lead (the expected response)

If he was an big time shutdown d-man he would be getting big minutes.. instead our 4th line is the only group with less minutes averaged per game.

Even if Schenn pans out to be a solid dman, i think JVR's ceiling is higher and I believe he will reach it. These guys are always so young an people expect immediate results because some guy another team drafted did.
- funmaster18

Totally agree... Poor player assessment by management.

He's currently 6th amongst Flyers defencemen in TOI.

Right now, I'm winning this.
- Atomic Wedgie

Luke Schenn is not playing good Hockey right now. But the only way you could be "winning" this is if his footspeed was the reason why he's currently 6th among defenseman in TOI. Which it's not.

Speaking of games, anybody played LA Noire before? I just finished Red Dead and am looking for another story-driven game to play. Btw, I know I'm hopelessly behind the times.
- Tomahawk

heard it was great(LA Noire). if you want to play something more recent i totally recommend "the last of us" best story game i have ever played.

first 5 minutes of the game. This is nothing compared to the rest of it:

Game got a 10/10 not a easy feat

Luke Schenn is not playing good Hockey right now. But the only way you could be "winning" this is if his footspeed was the reason why he's currently 6th among defenseman in TOI. Which it's not.
- MJL

I hope he turns his game around and we see the guy we saw last year soon.

Luke Schenn is not playing good Hockey right now. But the only way you could be "winning" this is if his footspeed was the reason why he's currently 6th among defenseman in TOI. Which it's not.
- MJL

In all seriousness.. If he was say... "meszy fast".. do you think he would still be 16th in icetime?

Now, I tend to agree that its not the ONLY reason, but unlike last year, he has been getting burnt at an alarming rate. His puck skills seemed to have taken a hit as well. He seemed more simple last season.

For all the Crosby haters out there... he is currently on pace for 156 points this season.

He's currently 6th amongst Flyers defencemen in TOI.

Right now, I'm winning this.
- Atomic Wedgie

I'm pretty sure you and I talked at the time of the trade and I thought we were selling low and getting jobbed and you were the only one who agreed with me.

Luke Schenn is not playing good Hockey right now. But the only way you could be "winning" this is if his footspeed was the reason why he's currently 6th among defenseman in TOI. Which it's not.
- MJL

It's always better when he's not slow just really bad.

I'm pretty sure you and I talked at the time of the trade and I thought we were selling low and getting jobbed and you were the only one who agreed with me.

- mayorofangrytown

whoa MOAT.. You may think that Keith Primeau was the greatest of all time, and would be alone in that assessment, but you definitely werent the only one saying the Flyers were selling low.

I hated the move. I felt a bit better after last season (if only by a small margin), but I still think it is horrrrrennndous

It's always better when he's not slow just really bad.
- mayorofangrytown

Even if Schenn pans out to be a solid dman, i think JVR's ceiling is higher and I believe he will reach it. These guys are always so young an people expect immediate results because some guy another team drafted did.
- funmaster18

I'm not neccessarily saying this is your outlook. But for most fans, a goal scorer is always going to be held in higher esteem then a defenseman. Especially a defenseman that isn't a point producer. So for some no matter how good Luke Schenn gets, he'll never match up to a goal scorer. But a top defenseman that can shut down top offensive players is just as important, if not more important then a goal scoring winger. The oonly issue is that Schenn needs to get there.

For all the Crosby haters out there... he is currently on pace for 156 points this season.


- jak521

I would love to see players putting up 160 pts and 80 goals again but it isn't happening this year. Crosby won't break 150 and Ovechkin won't pop in 70+

I wonder what effect widening the rinks would bring about. Never happening but that's been my dream for yrs.

That and getting rid of the friggin trapezoid.

I would love to see players putting up 160 pts and 80 goals again but it isn't happening this year. Crosby won't break 150 and Ovechkin won't pop in 70+

I wonder what effect widening the rinks would bring about. Never happening but that's been my dream for yrs.

That and getting rid of the friggin trapezoid.
- mayorofangrytown

Widening the rink would be a disaster.. the game is fast enough already.. but getting rid of the trapezoid would be fantastic. I hate that damn thing. Let the goalies enter the trapezoid, but be fair game there. Play the puck in the corners at your own risk type of scenario.

I think Crosby is more than capable so long as he stays healthy..

In all seriousness.. If he was say... "meszy fast".. do you think he would still be 16th in icetime?

Now, I tend to agree that its not the ONLY reason, but unlike last year, he has been getting burnt at an alarming rate. His puck skills seemed to have taken a hit as well. He seemed more simple last season.
- jak521

Right now it doesn't matter how fast he is, because he's not moving his feet. I think there's a conditioning issue. Watch the replay of the Crosby goal in the last Pens game. He's stops and stands still and watches the play. When you do that, it doesn't matter how fast you are.
He has had a lousy start to the Season. And he deserves to be last in icetime among defenseman. But we could make the same comments about a lot of players on the team. Giroux looks like he lost his ability to score and set up plays. And he's been a liability defensively. But we all know that Giroux hasn't lost his ability. I expect Giroux to come around. Same with Schenn.

whoa MOAT.. You may think that Keith Primeau was the greatest of all time, and would be alone in that assessment, but you definitely werent the only one saying the Flyers were selling low.

I hated the move. I felt a bit better after last season (if only by a small margin), but I still think it is horrrrrennndous
- jak521

I was watching something the other day and they were replaying the 2004 playoffs and the announcer called Primeau Captain Clutch and my ears hemorrhaged and my bladder released.

There weren't too many people who thought we were trading for a 5th or 6th defenseman. Selling low on JVR... yes.

/edited

Widening the rink would be a disaster.. the game is fast enough already.. but getting rid of the trapezoid would be fantastic. I hate that damn thing. Let the goalies enter the trapezoid, but be fair game there. Play the puck in the corners at your own risk type of scenario.
- jak521

Why do you think it would be a disaster? They play the Olympics on larger rinks most of the time, World Juniors occasionally and College all the time and it's fantastic. What makes you say that? really.

I was watching something the other day and they were replaying the 2004 playoffs and the announcer called Primeau Captain Clutch and my ears hemorrhaged and my bladder released.

There were too many people who thought we were trading for a 5th or 6th defenseman. Selling low on JVR... yes.
- mayorofangrytown

I said my list for JvR would be guys like Shattenkirk, Subban, or Bogosian.. those guys are all dynamic.. Schenn isnt dynamic. I hated it when it was first proposed.. loved that it didnt happen.. and then hated it when it did in fact happen and we didnt get at least a 2nd to go with it.

Why do you think it would be a disaster? They play the Olympics on larger rinks most of the time, World Juniors occasionally and College all the time and it's fantastic. What makes you say that? really.
- mayorofangrytown

From an injury standpoint.. 82 games on the small rink is dangerous.. on an open rink and players with more speed... scary thought. For offensive production it would make sense.

BAM! goes the Coburn

I said my list for JvR would be guys like Shattenkirk, Subban, or Bogosian.. those guys are all dynamic.. Schenn isnt dynamic. I hated it when it was first proposed.. loved that it didnt happen.. and then hated it when it did in fact happen and we didnt get at least a 2nd to go with it.
- jak521

What it comes down to then, is that it would have to be a puck moving offensive defenseman for you to be happy with the trade. If Luke Schenn reaches the level of a top pairing physical defensive defenseman, would you be happy with it then?

I'm not neccessarily saying this is your outlook. But for most fans, a goal scorer is always going to be held in higher esteem then a defenseman. Especially a defenseman that isn't a point producer. So for some no matter how good Luke Schenn gets, he'll never match up to a goal scorer. But a top defenseman that can shut down top offensive players is just as important, if not more important then a goal scoring winger. The oonly issue is that Schenn needs to get there.
- MJL

If Schenn becomes a too shut down d for us, then I'll be ok with the trade, I just think JVR was a special player with his size and skill. It's more that I'm disappointed in losing JVR not that I don't like Schenn. After last season I thought Ok, I'm starting to see the potential of what the flyers were hoping for out of this deal. Id love for Schenn to step up again this year and make me eat my words.

What it comes down to then, is that it would have to be a puck moving offensive defenseman for you to be happy with the trade. If Luke Schenn reaches the level of a top pairing physical defensive defenseman, would you be happy with it then?
- MJL

I always see you throwing this top pairing physical defensive, defenseman term around.
Can you provide a list of players who fit this bill? D-men who are top pairing guys that have little to no offensive ability.

If Schenn becomes a too shut down d for us, then I'll be ok with the trade, I just think JVR was a special player with his size and skill. It's more that I'm disappointed in losing JVR not that I don't like Schenn. After last season I thought Ok, I'm starting to see the potential of what the flyers were hoping for out of this deal. Id love for Schenn to step up again this year and make me eat my words.
- funmaster18

I was disappointed in losing JVR also. I was one of the posters that defended JVR to the naysayers that were calling him a bust. And I was looking forward to watching him play on the Wing with Giroux. He's a good player, no doubt. I wouldn't label him as special though. Right now, Schenn needs to pick up his game big time.