Denied... I don't want to lose Gardiner
- SofaKingBored

he's already lost to you

let him go man.. let him be free

You're thinking about it the wrong way. These little miscues don't matter in the grand scheme of things. Corsi correlates literally perfectly with puck possession. Teams that possess the puck more tend to take more shot attempts than their opponents. It's that simple. Corsi = shot attempts. Don't overthink it.
- panek

Perfectly? No.

It's just one of the only ways we can currently guess at possession since the league doesn't actually track possession. It's far from perfect.

I am willing to sit on the fence with corsi/fenwick until someone can actually show me something or prove its working to predict something. I like all forms of stats, the more info the better.

and since those from behind centre, and it bounces off the boards, off the back of the goalies skate, and into the net goals only happen once every 5 years we are good for a while
- senstroll

and is that per goalie? per team? if so we still have another stinker to come.

good man!

take one in the pills but still hangs on to the beer.

bravo!
- zazzle

i know! the man has his priorities straight

yeah a pair of real NHL GMs
- honesthockey

Don't need NHL GM's for this survey, no ones stupid enough to have Bozak over Gardiner. Oh wait....

Who's panicking? Unlike much of the advanced stats crowd, I actually happen to think that the Leafs aren't doomed to hugely regress. Their goaltending and shooting skill is just too strong. That said, they do need to improve in possession if they're going to compete for the cup. They don't hold a candle to the Blackhawks of the NHL... yet...
- panek

just a Toews, Sharp, Keith and Seabrook away.

It's not really meant to be used like that. It gets dumb when it is though.

edit: oh, i see i missed an essay that used 1000 words to say the say thing. my bad.
- daeth

problem is, that's what lots of people do.

Bad corsi=bad team.

Bad Corsi+good results= lucky team.

It's pretty much exactly the same as using +/- to judge a player's worth.

Why is Bozak still on the PP?

Don't need NHL GM's for this survey, no ones stupid enough to have Bozak over Gardiner. Oh wait....
- peddy-93

you are (frank)ed if you think Gardiner is more valuable then Bozak

problem is, that's what lots of people do.

Bad corsi=bad team.

Bad Corsi+good results= lucky team.

It's pretty much exactly the same as using +/- to judge a player's worth.
- Feeling Glucky?

they really don't.

Guys, Corsi is just a proxy for puck possession. That's it. In fact, it correlates almost perfectly with offensive zone attack time.

And guess what? Teams that possess the puck TEND to win more games. Duh.

That doesn't mean you need to be the best puck possession team to win games. There are teams that possess the puck well (cough New Jersey cough) but lack the scoring touch to win. But consider this: 3 of the last 6 Stanley Cup champions were the best puck possession team in the regular season. Of all the recent Stanley Cup finalists, only the Penguins were in the bottom half of possession. So again, Corsi isn't everything, but it's certainly a defining feature of all of the NHL's best franchises (Boston, LA, Chicago).

The Leafs are winning because of great goaltending (and PK) and high goal scoring/shooting percentage (they have exceptionally skilled forwards and tend to score off the rush or on the PP -- i.e., in high shooting percentage situations). But their lack of puck possession is pretty glaring. No one in their right mind thinks you can win games getting 2 shots on goal a period. Even Carlyle is harping on the Leafs' possession problems.

The good news is they're still winning. They're also missing Kulemin and Clarkson, two puck possession wingers so their possession numbers will likely improve.

I'll end this simply by saying this: if you're gonna try to rail against the stats, try to at least understand them. All Corsi does is describe what we are all seeing with our eyes -- the Leafs are getting outshot and outpossessed on a nightly basis. That typically doesn't bode well. Thankfully the Leafs have great goaltending and exceptional forwards. JVR is a beast. That is all.

Cheers
- panek

Thanks @mirtle, but we already know your stance.... and it's full of holes

Why is Bozak still on the PP?
- markmark

I dont know, ask HH

Why is Bozak still on the PP?
- markmark

Someone's gotta start with the puck. And retrieve it.

Last night before the team woke up, Orr-Mcclement-Bodie had probably the best shift of the game to that point, and then Orr drew a penalty. These guys contribute, and on nights like last night they need to play more.
- Leafland

I agree ....great at what they need to do.

I dont know, ask HH
- peddy-93

love that an NHL coaching staff knows less then you

Someone's gotta start with the puck. And retrieve it.
- honesthockey

Kadri is winning draws just as well as Bozak. Why not use a player that actually has some offensive tools?

you are (frank)ed if you think Gardiner is more valuable then Bozak
- honesthockey

What??...Bozak +contract+NTC= unmovable...

Guys, Corsi is just a proxy for puck possession. That's it. In fact, it correlates almost perfectly with offensive zone attack time.

And guess what? Teams that possess the puck TEND to win more games. Duh.

That doesn't mean you need to be the best puck possession team to win games. There are teams that possess the puck well (cough New Jersey cough) but lack the scoring touch to win. But consider this: 3 of the last 6 Stanley Cup champions were the best puck possession team in the regular season. Of all the recent Stanley Cup finalists, only the Penguins were in the bottom half of possession. So again, Corsi isn't everything, but it's certainly a defining feature of all of the NHL's best franchises (Boston, LA, Chicago).

The Leafs are winning because of great goaltending (and PK) and high goal scoring/shooting percentage (they have exceptionally skilled forwards and tend to score off the rush or on the PP -- i.e., in high shooting percentage situations). But their lack of puck possession is pretty glaring. No one in their right mind thinks you can win games getting 2 shots on goal a period. Even Carlyle is harping on the Leafs' possession problems.

The good news is they're still winning. They're also missing Kulemin and Clarkson, two puck possession wingers so their possession numbers will likely improve.

I'll end this simply by saying this: if you're gonna try to rail against the stats, try to at least understand them. All Corsi does is describe what we are all seeing with our eyes -- the Leafs are getting outshot and outpossessed on a nightly basis. That typically doesn't bode well. Thankfully the Leafs have great goaltending and exceptional forwards. JVR is a beast. That is all.

Cheers
- panek

Team Corsi this year.
Number 2 - New Jersey (currently 27th in the NHL)
Number 5 - Ottawa (currently 21st in the NHL)
Number 7 - Montreal (Currently 17th in the NHL)
Number 9 - NYR (Currently 28th in the NHL)

or how about opposite
Number 18 - Pitts (currently 3rd in the NHL)
Number 19 - Colorado (currently 2nd in the NHL)
Number 22 - Anaheim (currently 4th in the NHL)
Number 30 - Toronto (currently 6th in the NHL)

great stats guys

they really don't.
- Gary_B.

Well, the ones that used corsi all summer to predict the Leafs failing this season certainly did.

Someone's gotta start with the puck. And retrieve it.
- honesthockey

And make Kessel better right?

Those assists on all of his goals last night were phenomenal. That behind-the-back no looker was all Bozak, Kessel simply soaks up all of his talent.

Wait.... Hold on.. That wasn't Bozak, it was....

love that an NHL coaching staff knows less then you
- honesthockey

Same way they know less about Gardiner than you do, right?

What??...Bozak +contract+NTC= unmovable...
- Fruitcakenipple

Don't even bring in the conract or value, just on ice play. Bozak rules...... NAT

he's already lost to you

let him go man.. let him be free
- Dozzer

Hey Bruce, would you actually like to see Jake traded?

Rielly is staying, that's fact, so do we move Jake? And for what?

What??...Bozak +contract+NTC= unmovable...
- Fruitcakenipple

They just signed him pretty obvious he's going no where. Carlyle loves the kid. Nonis too.

are those numbers named after ex NHL sieve goalie Jim Corsi?