Well they've been through several coaches & many different roster moves, even a change in GM. Not much else they can try to see what will turn the corner.
- ob18

I may be off on this, but I suspect if we miss the playoffs horribly, Homer will replaced by Hextall. If so, part of the reason to bring Hextall in is to execute a build like the one in LA.. I don't think it would be exactly the same, but the idea is to build through the draft and supplement with UFA's and trades that don't include youth or picks until you are ready to take your shot. I think Homer was trying to jump start this process with the Richards Carter trades.

The worry has become poor talent assessment with Bob/Bryz type of thing and maybe with what we got back for Richie Carts. Overall, as long as we do not trade picks or young talent, we're not in that bad of shape. We will most likely miss the playoffs this year, so trade older vets if you can for more picks and young players... Not sure this makes sense hahah

I may be off on this, but I suspect if we miss the playoffs horribly, Homer will replaced by Hextall. If so, part of the reason to bring Hextall in is to execute a build like the one in LA.. I don't think it would be exactly the same, but the idea is to build through the draft and supplement with UFA's and trades that don't include youth or picks until you are ready to take your shot. I think Homer was trying to jump start this process with the Richards Carter trades.

The worry has become poor talent assessment with Bob/Bryz type of thing and maybe with what we got back for Richie Carts. Overall, as long as we do not trade picks or young talent, we're not in that bad of shape. We will most likely miss the playoffs this year, so trade who you can for more picks and young players... Not sure this makes sense hahah
- Hextall271

Homer's contract is up in 2014, I think he's done at the end of it anyway.

sad part is they could trade any one of those 7 dmen and no one would be angry about it.

actually think moving Gus would get the most backlash
- Crimsoninja

Trading Gus should absolutely receive the most backlash. Right?

I agree with you Bill. Isn't it a little asinine to allow a player to play, age disregarded, in the NHL, but be too old to play in the NHL? That's like allowing a kid to play 2 age groups up in a travel league- because he's good enough- but not allowing him to play up 1 age group because he's too young

In this case though, it's obvious Laughton is just toying with Juniors. It's pretty ridiculous. That being said, I kind of like it- it could be good for his development....let the kid play with some serious fire in his game because of the demotion. If that swagger translates into his NHL play next year, we could actually have a Mike Richards

Finally, in some news that either you guys and girls may or may not care about, I was officially progressed into my professional years and given my white coat and the "Student Pharmacist" title on Saturday! 3 and a half more years of hell!

since the team has declined over the last few seasons and there still is no solution to the problem on D, it is your defence of him that falls flat. the knee jerk moves and general org wide impatience is universally acknowledged by all of those who are willing to see it...
- isaiah520

All teams have ups and downs, especially young teams. We knew with the radical change made with the Carter and Richards trades that this was going to take some time. For the younger players to mature and grow. In the Richards and Carter trades, the Flyers acquired 4 young players. Those players are still with the team, and are still considered part of the core going forward. Even refusing to trade Schenn or Couturier according to some reports. But yet here I read about general org wide impatience. What knee jerk moves are you referring to? Because none of the moves made could be considered knee jerk in my opinion. Not liking a move doesn't make it knee jerk.
If you look over Holmgren's tenure as the Flyers GM, he has made numerous trades and moves to build a solid blueline. Starting with Timonen, and adding O'Donnell, Meszaros, Carle, Coburn, Grossmann, and Pronger. And now Streit. It wasn't too long ago that the fans were saying how great the defense was. A career ending injury to a franchise defenseman, and Timonen declining has the Flyers in a current down cycle as far as the D is concerned. But he has built a quality defense before, and he can do it again. And he has also built up a strong prospect base of young defenseman. There is time to upgrade the defense to match the group of good young forwards that the team has.
This Season is off to a bad start. But the recent struggles have far more to do with a Coaching issue in my opinion, then a GM issue. I'm quite sure that Holmgren knows there is work to do with the D. But a little patience is needed. It's a shame some fans don't have that. And it's normally the same ones who criticize the team for not having it, that don't have it themselves.

in the NHL, seven yrs is an eternity and this GM has abandoned the credo he trumpeted when he was ushered in.
- isaiah520

And what was that credo?

All teams have ups and downs, especially young teams. We knew with the radical change made with the Carter and Richards trades that this was going to take some time. For the younger players to mature and grow. In the Richards and Carter trades, the Flyers acquired 4 young players. Those players are still with the team, and are still considered part of the core going forward. Even refusing to trade Schenn or Couturier according to some reports. But yet here I read about general org wide impatience. What knee jerk moves are you referring to? Because none of the moves made could be considered knee jerk in my opinion. Not liking a move doesn't make it knee jerk.
If you look over Holmgren's tenure as the Flyers GM, he has made numerous trades and moves to build a solid blueline. Starting with Timonen, and adding O'Donnell, Meszaros, Carle, Coburn, Grossmann, and Pronger. And now Streit. It wasn't too long ago that the fans were saying how great the defense was. A career ending injury to a franchise defenseman, and Timonen declining has the Flyers in a current down cycle as far as the D is concerned. But he has built a quality defense before, and he can do it again. And he has also built up a strong prospect base of young defenseman. There is time to upgrade the defense to match the group of good young forwards that the team has.
This Season is off to a bad start. But the recent struggles have far more to do with a Coaching issue in my opinion, then a GM issue. I'm quite sure that Holmgren knows there is work to do with the D. But a little patience is needed. It's a shame some fans don't have that. And it's normally the same ones who criticize the team for not having it, that don't have it themselves.
- MJL

I agree with this. I'm not patient watching a losing team like most others, but we can't trade any youth or picks for a quick fix in the next few years. To be fair, Homer only spent money in the offseason..and stuck to this plan.

OT: if Mason continues to play like this for most of the season, I re sign him to a multi year deal. I think we've found our guy..

I may be off on this, but I suspect if we miss the playoffs horribly, Homer will replaced by Hextall. If so, part of the reason to bring Hextall in is to execute a build like the one in LA.. I don't think it would be exactly the same, but the idea is to build through the draft and supplement with UFA's and trades that don't include youth or picks until you are ready to take your shot. I think Homer was trying to jump start this process with the Richards Carter trades.

The worry has become poor talent assessment with Bob/Bryz type of thing and maybe with what we got back for Richie Carts. Overall, as long as we do not trade picks or young talent, we're not in that bad of shape. We will most likely miss the playoffs this year, so trade older vets if you can for more picks and young players... Not sure this makes sense hahah
- Hextall271

Addressing the first point. I think it's completely logical and reasonable to say that if the Flyers miss the playoffs, that Holmgren could be dismissed. I think that's very possible. But even if they miss the playoffs, Holmgren could stay. And I think that's due to loyalty. This guy is a life long Flyer. He was a player, Coach, Asst. GM, and now GM. He's family. So I think there's a possibility that Holmgren could survive missing the playoffs.
If Mason pans out and continues his level of play, I think the goalie issues and concerns over Bryz/Bob will be in the past. When the Carter/Richards deals were made the fans were gaga over the deals. Loved the return. Now that the team is struggling, the trades are being second guessed. I wonder how long until Giroux is thrown under the bus. And the BS starts flying about him.

That is the Flyers biggest issue right now. Even just a decent top 4 2 way player like Paul Martin would help this team a lot. I think the Flyers have to decide in the near future. Which 2 of the 3 defensive defenseman they want to keep.
- MJL

I like Coburn, and a good friend of mine is probably the biggest Coburn fan in the world (he has the guy's draft board, the actual name plate they put up on the big board at the NHL draft). But, that being said, I think he's gonna go. He'd fetch the biggest return of the 3. The thing is, he's not a bad player but, like Matt Carle (who I was never a fan of from day 1, except for game 82), every mistake is ending up in the net. He doesn't deserve the ripping he's getting, but he will be the guy who falls on his own sword.

I agree with you Bill. Isn't it a little asinine to allow a player to play, age disregarded, in the NHL, but be too old to play in the NHL? That's like allowing a kid to play 2 age groups up in a travel league- because he's good enough- but not allowing him to play up 1 age group because he's too young

In this case though, it's obvious Laughton is just toying with Juniors. It's pretty ridiculous. That being said, I kind of like it- it could be good for his development....let the kid play with some serious fire in his game because of the demotion. If that swagger translates into his NHL play next year, we could actually have a Mike Richards

Finally, in some news that either you guys and girls may or may not care about, I was officially progressed into my professional years and given my white coat and the "Student Pharmacist" title on Saturday! 3 and a half more years of hell!
- Giroux_Is_God

congrats and good luck

Addressing the first point. I think it's completely logical and reasonable to say that if the Flyers miss the playoffs, that Holmgren could be dismissed. I think that's very possible. But even if they miss the playoffs, Holmgren could stay. And I think that's due to loyalty. This guy is a life long Flyer. He was a player, Coach, Asst. GM, and now GM. He's family. So I think there's a possibility that Holmgren could survive missing the playoffs.
If Mason pans out and continues his level of play, I think the goalie issues and concerns over Bryz/Bob will be in the past. When the Carter/Richards deals were made the fans were gaga over the deals. Loved the return. Now that the team is struggling, the trades are being second guessed. I wonder how long until Giroux is thrown under the bus. And the BS starts flying about him.
- MJL

The team has a young core. We do need to be patient. I am worried about how Giroux handles the pressure of the C with a bad team here. He definitely needs to get going, but Giroux shouldn't be thrown under the bus. A 4 point outburst and people will be back in love with him.

I like Coburn, and a good friend of mine is probably the biggest Coburn fan in the world (he has the guy's draft board, the actual name plate they put up on the big board at the NHL draft). But, that being said, I think he's gonna go. He'd fetch the biggest return of the 3. The thing is, he's not a bad player but, like Matt Carle (who I was never a fan of from day 1, except for game 82), every mistake is ending up in the net. He doesn't deserve the ripping he's getting, but he will be the guy who falls on his own sword.
- jmatchett383

any chance your friend wants a GW Coburn jersey from the last game (albeit exhibition) played in the Spectrum -

For anyone interested, here's the London Knight's (Anthony Stolarz's team) TV show (it follows the team like Oil Change or Flight Plan):
http://www.sportsnet.ca/h...st-for-the-cup-episode-1/

I agree with you Bill. Isn't it a little asinine to allow a player to play, age disregarded, in the NHL, but be too old to play in the NHL? That's like allowing a kid to play 2 age groups up in a travel league- because he's good enough- but not allowing him to play up 1 age group because he's too young

In this case though, it's obvious Laughton is just toying with Juniors. It's pretty ridiculous. That being said, I kind of like it- it could be good for his development....let the kid play with some serious fire in his game because of the demotion. If that swagger translates into his NHL play next year, we could actually have a Mike Richards

Finally, in some news that either you guys and girls may or may not care about, I was officially progressed into my professional years and given my white coat and the "Student Pharmacist" title on Saturday! 3 and a half more years of hell!
- Giroux_Is_God

I remember when you were just a pup scurrying around a pizza shop at the shore...

I like Coburn, and a good friend of mine is probably the biggest Coburn fan in the world (he has the guy's draft board, the actual name plate they put up on the big board at the NHL draft). But, that being said, I think he's gonna go. He'd fetch the biggest return of the 3. The thing is, he's not a bad player but, like Matt Carle (who I was never a fan of from day 1, except for game 82), every mistake is ending up in the net. He doesn't deserve the ripping he's getting, but he will be the guy who falls on his own sword.
- jmatchett383

Well you may very well be right. I think in terms of trade value, it would be Schenn, then Coburn. In terms of what kind of return you could get. Playing defense is like playing Safety in football. If a Safety whiffs on a tackle, he becomes the goat. Never mind that the RB ran through half the defense even before getting to the safety layer. Same with playing defense. And the classic example is the Crosby goal. Yea, Coburn had the puck taken off of him behind the net. But good teams will have the coverage in front of the net, and cover up for the initial mistake. That's why they call it team defense. Coburn got stripped and it was an easy slam dunk for Crosby.

any chance your friend wants a GW Coburn jersey from the last game (albeit exhibition) played in the Spectrum -
- wilsonecho91

I have a signed game used stick.

Well you may very well be right. I think in terms of trade value, it would be Schenn, then Coburn. In terms of what kind of return you could get
- MJL

Sorry. Yes, Schenn would get more, but I actually made it a 2-horse race (him and Grossmann) in my head.

Sorry. Yes, Schenn would get more, but I actually made it a 2-horse race (him and Grossmann) in my head.
- jmatchett383

Understandable why. You have to think that Schenn is part of the young core.

All teams have ups and downs, especially young teams. We knew with the radical change made with the Carter and Richards trades that this was going to take some time. For the younger players to mature and grow. In the Richards and Carter trades, the Flyers acquired 4 young players. Those players are still with the team, and are still considered part of the core going forward. Even refusing to trade Schenn or Couturier according to some reports. But yet here I read about general org wide impatience. What knee jerk moves are you referring to? Because none of the moves made could be considered knee jerk in my opinion. Not liking a move doesn't make it knee jerk.
If you look over Holmgren's tenure as the Flyers GM, he has made numerous trades and moves to build a solid blueline. Starting with Timonen, and adding O'Donnell, Meszaros, Carle, Coburn, Grossmann, and Pronger. And now Streit. It wasn't too long ago that the fans were saying how great the defense was. A career ending injury to a franchise defenseman, and Timonen declining has the Flyers in a current down cycle as far as the D is concerned. But he has built a quality defense before, and he can do it again. And he has also built up a strong prospect base of young defenseman. There is time to upgrade the defense to match the group of good young forwards that the team has.
This Season is off to a bad start. But the recent struggles have far more to do with a Coaching issue in my opinion, then a GM issue. I'm quite sure that Holmgren knows there is work to do with the D. But a little patience is needed. It's a shame some fans don't have that. And it's normally the same ones who criticize the team for not having it, that don't have it themselves.
- MJL

knee jerk...giving up on bob & bringing in bryz, signing carter, richards & JVR to big deals the shipping them out...resigning leighton...well, that was more like delusion, but bringing him back for a 2nd tour was another beaut.

kimmo and pronger were already in decline to enuf of a degree in '11 that a plan needed to be in place and his strong base of young dmen likely includes no one we'll be able to see in the top pairing until G starts declining...maybe they shoulda drafted dougie and/or maata...nah, cant be...

...look, when he's gone i'm sure you'll be singing the praises of his replacement because you're a company man. so enuf of this....

I have a signed game used stick.
- mayorofangrytown

and you haven't broken it in two yet?

Anyone see bortuzzo draw that tripping minor while skating the puck out of his zone?

Defensive dman with some wheels and puck skills. Must be nice.

And what was that credo?
- MJL

they would no longer trade youth for vets...they sure did that for pronger and that's ok if he's really the plyr that'll put you over the top, but they still had a very unsettled situation in goal...and ultimately that's what sunk them...and that goes back to impatience.

knee jerk...giving up on bob & bringing in bryz, signing carter, richards & JVR to big deals the shipping them out...resigning leighton...well, that was more like delusion, but bringing him back for a 2nd tour was another beaut.

kimmo and pronger were already in decline to enuf of a degree in '11 that a plan needed to be in place and his strong base of young dmen likely includes no one we'll be able to see in the top pairing until G starts declining...maybe they shoulda drafted dougie and/or maata...nah, cant be...

...look, when he's gone i'm sure you'll be singing the praises of his replacement because you're a company man. so enuf of this....
- isaiah520

None of those moves are knee jerk. To call them knee jerk ignores the Organizational planning and meetings with player personnel people, scouts, team execs, etc. to plan out an approach on how to better the team, that inevitably happened. I don't call going out and signing an established goaltender, who was a former Vezina finalist, and arguably the best goaltender available. Rather then relying on an unproven kid, knee jerk. To call it knee jerk lack objectivity. Put yourself in their shoes. They didn't get to make that call after the fact like you do. That monday morning QBing. It didn't work out.
Neither were the trades of Richards, Carter, or JVR knee jerk. I'm sure there were lots of deliberations and thoughts that went into coming to those decisions. That they signed them only to trade them later is really irrelevant. You like the return for the Carter Richards trades and now you call them knee jerk. The Carter to Columbus deal was rumored for how long? How could it be knee jerk? Same with the JVR for Schenn rumors. Calling them knee jerk is simply false!
I get a kick out of this plan in place. What's Detroit's plan in place for replacing Lidstrom? But you're right, if only the Flyers had drafted Dougie or Maata, everything would be all right. Because of course drafting Morin wasn't good enough! And the two players you named would be the saviors of this organization. Paul Holmgren is a failure because he didn't draft who you wanted him to draft.

If Holmgren is replaced, I'll judge his replacement with the same objectivity.

they would no longer trade youth for vets...they sure did that for pronger and that's ok if he's really the plyr that'll put you over the top, but they still had a very unsettled situation in goal...and ultimately that's what sunk them...and that goes back to impatience.
- isaiah520

Ray Emery developed a flesh-eating condition was "unsettled?"

they would no longer trade youth for vets...they sure did that for pronger and that's ok if he's really the plyr that'll put you over the top, but they still had a very unsettled situation in goal...and ultimately that's what sunk them...and that goes back to impatience.
- isaiah520

How may youths have they traded for vets recently? Tell me when this credo was established?