Letestu and Lovejoy got a 4th each... IMO jeffrey is better than Letestu
- nh4442

I like Jeffrey but he's not.

He may not be an elite defenseman, but he is used as a shut-down guy. People hate on him so much because he went 5th overall... He is a decent defenseman who can eat minutes and is arguably one of the most physical defenseman in the league. He fights, he hits, he blocks shots, his passing isn't terrible. He hasn't been a problem AT ALL since he got to Philadelphia.
- Flyers_V88

No, he isn't. Upper left hand corner on this charts indicates a shutdown type defenseman.

http://somekindofninja.co...te-filters=Update+Results

http://somekindofninja.co...te-filters=Update+Results

http://somekindofninja.co...te-filters=Update+Results

http://somekindofninja.co...te-filters=Update+Results

The problem with your D is that it's made up of a bunch of #3-6 guys getting paid mostly #2/3 salaries. You have Kimmo getting paid like a #1 and is, at best, a #3 guy anymore. And Streit & everyone else getting paid like #2/3 guys and none of them are a true #1 or even #2. Gustafssen is the lone exception but that's because he's on a rookie deal (I believe) and that's just not a recipe for success. They're all the same guy trying to fit into roles that they can't play. Sticking 6 guys that are solid but nobody that is really great isn't going to win. It's a straight line of mediocre on the blue line.
- ScienceJesus

I wouldn't go that harsh. It really hasn't been our D's fault for the most part. Sure, they're not perfect and have issues, but the D is more than enough to win. I agree that they're being over-paid, as a result of Holmgren, but it's not because they're not good enough. None of them are true number 1 D, but that isn't an excuse at all. Our top 6 is actually quite decent, and puck-moving isn't the blame anymore. Kimmo, Gus, and Streit can all still move the puck quite well, it's the forwards I'm more concerned with.

The forwards aren't generating enough creativity and offensive flair out there like they used to. I noticed last night, on so many instances, where the Flyers forwards were just throwing pucks on net when there were GLARING chances to make a play or hold onto it a second longer. If anything, I think that speaks to the fragility of their psyche, not having the confidence or trust to create out there.

No, he isn't. Upper left hand corner on this charts indicates a shutdown type defenseman.

http://somekindofninja.co...te-filters=Update+Results

http://somekindofninja.co...te-filters=Update+Results

http://somekindofninja.co...te-filters=Update+Results

http://somekindofninja.co...te-filters=Update+Results
- Ryan_Wilson

If you'll note, and then see earlier subsequent posts, I said he has been USED as one. I'm not saying he is inherently one. Also, I gave an explanation and clarification on this in the post. See earlier.

If you'll note, and then see earlier subsequent posts, I said he has been USED as one. I'm not saying he is inherently one. Also, I gave an explanation and clarification on this in the post. See earlier.
- Flyers_V88

Those are "usage" charts. They show that he has not been "used" as a shutdown guy.

Schenn's shutdown moniker was a result of the Leaf's faithful over hyping him, not the actual role he has played.

No, he isn't. Upper left hand corner on this charts indicates a shutdown type defenseman.

http://somekindofninja.co...te-filters=Update+Results

http://somekindofninja.co...te-filters=Update+Results

http://somekindofninja.co...te-filters=Update+Results

http://somekindofninja.co...te-filters=Update+Results
- Ryan_Wilson

Second highest quality of competition last year

Second highest quality of competition last year
- BulliesPhan87

That's one part of the equation.

That's one part of the equation.
- Ryan_Wilson

So it is

After watching last night's game, i've come to the conclusion that Bortuzzo should not miss a game for the rest of the season, barring injury. He has turned into a really good defenseman, and should never be scratched for Engelland ever again.

So it is
- BulliesPhan87

And even if he has been used in that role sporatically it doesn't change my overall opinion of him as a player. He's just not very good. The asset it took to draft him and the asset it took to acquire him for the Flyers does not match up at all with his value on the ice.

Those are "usage" charts. They show that he has not been "used" as a shutdown guy.

Schenn's shutdown moniker was a result of the Leaf's faithful over hyping him, not the actual role he has played.
- Ryan_Wilson

Which is what I echoed as well.

I wouldn't go that harsh. It really hasn't been our D's fault for the most part. Sure, they're not perfect and have issues, but the D is more than enough to win. I agree that they're being over-paid, as a result of Holmgren, but it's not because they're not good enough. None of them are true number 1 D, but that isn't an excuse at all. Our top 6 is actually quite decent, and puck-moving isn't the blame anymore. Kimmo, Gus, and Streit can all still move the puck quite well, it's the forwards I'm more concerned with.

The forwards aren't generating enough creativity and offensive flair out there like they used to. I noticed last night, on so many instances, where the Flyers forwards were just throwing pucks on net when there were GLARING chances to make a play or hold onto it a second longer. If anything, I think that speaks to the fragility of their psyche, not having the confidence or trust to create out there.
- Flyers_V88

I may have been harsh, but I think I was also being accurate. They're very similar talent level players all getting overpaid and then thrust into the wrong spots because of their salaries rather than their talent levels. The Flyers would be better to pick 2 of them to play in that 3/4 roles, dump the rest and use that #1 and #2 money to pay guys that actually fit those spots that they're paying someone that isn't good enough to play that role presently. And then fill the bottom 2 with the million dollar cheap. solid vet and the young up-and-coming guy on his entry level deal.

I took out a part in my post that I should have also left in regarding the forwards. They suffer a similar way: With the exception of Giroux and Voracek (maybe), the rest of your top 6 is basically the same 2nd/3rd line player being fit into 1st and 2nd line roles and being paid like it. There's 6 guys making between 3 and 5 million and most of them are between 1/2 and 1 million dollars overpaid. The bottom 6 is basically made up of 4th liners except for Couturier who, if he wasn't also on a rookie deal, would have been handed north of 3 million per as well by Homer because that's what he does.

The point I'm making here is that with the millions that have been overpaid for guys playing 1-2 spots higher than their talent level dictates, they could have actually gone out and bought the guys that DO meet the criteria of talent level for the spots and the rest of the guys would be being played in their proper spots.

And even if he has been used in that role sporatically it doesn't change my overall opinion of him as a player. He's just not very good. The asset it took to draft him and the asset it took to acquire him for the Flyers does not match up at all with his value on the ice.
- Ryan_Wilson

JVR offers literally NOTHING but streaky goal-scoring though? You make it sound like the Flyers got raped? JVR is literally invisible on the ice if he isn't producing. He plays ZERO two-way game, and has ONLY been the beneficiary of 1st line time in Toronto... Obviously, the trade looks poor considering how much the Flyers are having scoring right now, but don't forget, JVR was nothing special here, even though he wasn't getting first line time. But don't be fooled by his time in TO too, he's been an effective scorer, but it's not consistent and his game offers literally nothing else.

JVR offers literally NOTHING but streaky goal-scoring though? You make it sound like the Flyers got raped? JVR is literally invisible on the ice if he isn't producing. He plays ZERO two-way game, and has ONLY been the beneficiary of 1st line time in Toronto... Obviously, the trade looks poor considering how much the Flyers are having scoring right now, but don't forget, JVR was nothing special here, even though he wasn't getting first line time. But don't be fooled by his time in TO too, he's been an effective scorer, but it's not consistent and his game offers literally nothing else.
- Flyers_V88

The trade looked bad at the time, and still does for the Flyers. Thats not a good combination.

And even if he has been used in that role sporatically it doesn't change my overall opinion of him as a player. He's just not very good. The asset it took to draft him and the asset it took to acquire him for the Flyers does not match up at all with his value on the ice.
- Ryan_Wilson

That's fine and all. He wasn't good with the Maple Leafs, and maybe he was drafted too high. I didn't follow that draft closely, and at this point it's irrelevant to me. My experience watching Luke Schenn includes last season and this season. In that span, he's had one shortened season in which he was a generally a positive factor for the team, and eight games this season in which he's playing like (and being played like) a sixth defenseman on a bad team.

I'm not going to say the trade wasn't a win for Toronto (it certainly appears that way). I don't think it's an unmitigated disaster for the Flyers, though.

Those are "usage" charts. They show that he has not been "used" as a shutdown guy.

Schenn's shutdown moniker was a result of the Leaf's faithful over hyping him, not the actual role he has played.
- Ryan_Wilson

Schenn has the size and is a good enough skater although he is not as fast as some. He is better suited to killing PP and clearing the front of the net if you ask me. IF and I do mean if, he is paired with a mobile defenseman who can cover some flaws he is OK. But at the most worst times his hockey sense is way up his arse. He is either out of place or misreading the play. He has the body, but not the brain, IMO.

I may have been harsh, but I think I was also being accurate. They're very similar talent level players all getting overpaid and then thrust into the wrong spots because of their salaries rather than their talent levels. The Flyers would be better to pick 2 of them to play in that 3/4 roles, dump the rest and use that #1 and #2 money to pay guys that actually fit those spots that they're paying someone that isn't good enough to play that role presently. And then fill the bottom 2 with the million dollar cheap. solid vet and the young up-and-coming guy on his entry level deal.

I took out a part in my post that I should have also left in regarding the forwards. They suffer a similar way: With the exception of Giroux and Voracek (maybe), the rest of your top 6 is basically the same 2nd/3rd line player being fit into 1st and 2nd line roles and being paid like it. There's 6 guys making between 3 and 5 million and most of them are between 1/2 and 1 million dollars overpaid. The bottom 6 is basically made up of 4th liners except for Couturier who, if he wasn't also on a rookie deal, would have been handed north of 3 million per as well by Homer because that's what he does.

The point I'm making here is that with the millions that have been overpaid for guys playing 1-2 spots higher than their talent level dictates, they could have actually gone out and bought the guys that DO meet the criteria of talent level for the spots and the rest of the guys would be being played in their proper spots.
- ScienceJesus

Easier said than done. They tried to address the issue on D and swung and missed. I do agree that we don't have the number 1 guy we need, and that we maybe have too many similar natured D, but that isn't the reason we're not winning. The D hasn't been the issue, at all. And for most watching the games, there actually is somewhat of a noticeable improvement over last year's D play.

As for the forwards, the blame lays mostly on them for the team's performance. If they don't score, we don't win. I also don't buy your argument about our lack of 1st line guys... By that logic, Pittsburgh has 3 players that are top 6 guys? Crosby, Malkin, and Neal? Lecavalier, Hartnell, G, Simmer, Voracek, and Read are top 6 guys on most teams in the league. They're all capable for 20+ goals when healthy and producing. So I don't think that flies either, we have the talent to be competitive.

Schenn has the size and is a good enough skater although he is not as fast as some. He is better suited to killing PP and clearing the front of the net if you ask me. IF and I do mean if, he is paired with a mobile defenseman who can cover some flaws he is OK. But at the most worst times his hockey sense is way up his arse. He is either out of place or misreading the play. He has the body, but not the brain, IMO.
- powerhouse

Fair assessment. Experience will help curve this. Remember, he still only 23...

Only 2 points for Sid last night. And I thought he would have a big game. Just steady.. When they start going in for them, it will be fun to watch.

Fair assessment. Experience will help curve this. Remember, he still only 23...
- Flyers_V88

True.

True.
- powerhouse

Yeah, I mean he is what he is right now and the Flyers just need to deal with what we have. From a Pens' perspective, if the Flyers go big in trade-splash, who do you target and what do you give up?

Yeah, I mean he is what he is right now and the Flyers just need to deal with what we have. From a Pens' perspective, if the Flyers go big in trade-splash, who do you target and what do you give up?
- Flyers_V88

Something wrong there. The Flyers have a ton of talent to be playing so poorly.

Something wrong there. The Flyers have a ton of talent to be playing so poorly.
- bixll

I agree fully, but no one can seem to pinpoint the exact issue? It's the strangest thing. I think it will break soon and they will start to score and win some games, but it's been an awfully poor start so far.

I agree fully, but no one can seem to pinpoint the exact issue? It's the strangest thing. I think it will break soon and they will start to score and win some games, but it's been an awfully poor start so far.
- Flyers_V88

Team chemistry seems all franked up to be honest. No real system being followed.

After watching last night's game, i've come to the conclusion that Bortuzzo should not miss a game for the rest of the season, barring injury. He has turned into a really good defenseman, and should never be scratched for Engelland ever again.
- cap1681

Agreed , I'm a big fan of bortuzzo. On another note , who saw that pass maatta made off his skate last ? It was sick , didn't turn into anything but wow ! Should he really be trying that in his 7th NHL game though ?