i might need therapy if he gets traded
- -davies-

+1

They are being paid to be better than that. I think the Flyers 5-6 is paid more than most teams 3-4 defensemen.
- Flyers_01

A lot of it has to do with the team's inability to develop young defenseman. When you have to acquire all defenseman thru trade or FA, it's going to cost a lot more.

Well, we'll see. He's nothing special, but he is a good 13th forward at least.

I would traded Kimmo if he wanted to because he deserves a Cup as much as anyone else in the league.
- jmatchett383

Timonen looks shot. And now he's hurt. The writing was on the wall last year.
Literally every aspect of this team sans Mason is an absolute mess.

For all the hate on Mez, did you notice that he was only on the ice for two goals against (one of which was on the PK) in five games played.
- strongsupporter

I didn't know that stat to that level, but I believe it. And I have absolutely no issue at all giving him the credit that merits. It would be unfair to not do that -- the team defense, as a whole, isn't pretty. But they really haven't conceded a ton of goals this year, as a whole. He played a role in that.

Andrej Meszaros...I'm honest enough to admit that he's (probably) not as bad as I think he is, and he's not as good as some of his supporters claim.

Snider wont give you a cent back, people think he is generous but he is a cheap bastard
- vejim

Yeah well say what you want but I work with the Ed Snider foundation and he is NOT cheap.

What point?
- strongsupporter

That when defenseman are asked to play top pairing minutes, but aren't top pairing defenseman, they can look terrible. In reality, they're just in the wrong spot.

The point was made that while Coburn has looked pretty bad for a couple years now, he may look very good as a third pairing dman on a good team

Hall might get waived. He was kept for his faceoff prowess, but Couturier seems to have gotten a lot better on faceoffs. When Vinny returns, the team had 3 solid faceoff men without Hall.
- PhillySportsGuy

Right now, they don't need to waive Hall to send him down.

Timonen looks shot. And now he's hurt. The writing was on the wall last year.
Literally every aspect of this team sans Mason is an absolute mess.
- PLindbergh31

I'm a big Kimmo Timonen fan. He didn't look right out there before he went out with the injury.

As for that writing on the wall from last year; don't forget he had point output comparable to just about any d-man in the league last year. I'm not arguing Timonen is an elite d-man. I'm just saying I think his demise was exaggerated by some (most?) last year.

I didn't know that stat to that level, but I believe it. And I have absolutely no issue at all giving him the credit that merits. It would be unfair to not do that -- the team defense, as a whole, isn't pretty. But they really haven't conceded a ton of goals this year, as a whole. He played a role in that.

Andrej Meszaros...I'm honest enough to admit that he's (probably) not as bad as I think he is, and he's not as good as some of his supporters claim.
- AllInForFlyers

Not trying to be petulant here, but I haven't seen many pumping his tires. There are some who would like to see him get his game on track (coincidentally they also find him rather dashing), though. He did bring a nice bit of offensive punch to the blueline a couple years ago.

Right now, they don't need to waive Hall to send him down.
- MJL

How long does that last? A month from when he cleared waivers, right?

So, game 5 of my 10-game Berube window was a definite step backwards.

I'm a big Kimmo Timonen fan. He didn't look right out there before he went out with the injury.

As for that writing on the wall from last year; don't forget he had point output comparable to just about any d-man in the league last year. I'm not arguing Timonen is an elite d-man. I'm just saying I think his demise was exaggerated by some (most?) last year.
- johndewar

Is there any update on what the injury is or what the time frame is he will be gone? he hasn't been stellar this year, but he's still prob the top Dman.

Regarding Couturier, yes I know he's only 20, but this is now his third season in the NHL. He seems to be regressing. He hasn't been handled correctly, and has often played with sub-par linemates, but I'm not liking what I'm seeing. His skating isn't improving at all.

We absolutely need a new culture. We need patience and belief from the top of the org.

I like Homer. But watching him over the past few years.. It seems as though he never has faith in his own moves. Trading players after signing them to long contracts. Trading guys after they dont get their careers off to a blazing start. Saying one thing and doing another. We need to have a stable, confident and patient leader at the top. We dont have that.
- jak521

I get the sense that is because of Snider. I could be totally off mark here but when Homer came in, he was going to get the patience of Snider/Luukko because he was inheriting a hot mess left by Clarke and there was going to be patience to rebuild. he made good moves moving out veterans for kids and picks, went out and got Hartnell and Timonen hitting their primes. Briere was a nice free agent. but after coming close and not winning, the patience is no longer there from above so now you see the attempts at the home runs, the attempts at grabbing all the free agents, the piecing together of a roster. I like Homer and want to see him fix this but I have to wonder if the pressure to win won't allow patience and maybe it will take the next GM coming in (Hexy) to do things the right way because a new GM will be given time.

Not trying to be petulant here, but I haven't seen many pumping his tires. There are some who would like to see him get his game on track (coincidentally they also find him rather dashing), though. He did bring a nice bit of offensive punch to the blueline a couple years ago.
- BulliesPhan87

Believe me, I wish he had been playing well enough to make a difference.

They need someone to make a difference. Anybody. I don't care who it is.

Of all the problems with this team right now, the lack of emotion bugs me the most. Not one player even looks like he cares, or gets upset.

How long does that last? A month from when he cleared waivers, right?
- BulliesPhan87

If it hasn't changed, it's 10 games or 30 days.

Since the Carter/Richards trades he has been patient. He changed the core of the team and has stuck with it to this point.
- MJL

That wasn't all that long ago.. and he also traded (gave up) on JvR. He has zero track record of being confident in his decisions. Every time he says something about someone being safe, they end up out of the org.

Richards, Carter, JvR, Bryz, Laviolette.

I like Homer.. and I believe his heart is in the right place, but there needs to be confidence at the top.. and I dont believe there is.

The sad part is that the situation he was placed in this season was unfair. Expecting a smallish, 38-year-old defenseman to be your top defender...even typing it out, it sounds ridiculous.

I can wait for Morin, Alt, Hagg, Ghost. I'm glad that Gus is playing. But the Flyers have to make the call on this stuff, and stop dancing around it. If we're awful, then be awful. But don't be awful with older, aging players.

Move Coburn on, let Timonen decide where he wants to go, see what you have for 50 games in Lauridsen and Manning. If they have a future, great. If they have no future, then at least you know.

But at 1-7...if you're going to be bad, be bad and give the young players a chance to play at the NHL level. Don't be bad while playing Coburn and Timonen 20-plus minutes a night.
- AllInForFlyers

Boom great stuff

Regarding Couturier, yes I know he's only 20, but this is now his third season in the NHL. He seems to be regressing. He hasn't been handled correctly, and has often played with sub-par linemates, but I'm not liking what I'm seeing. His skating isn't improving at all.
- PLindbergh31

He isn't regressing. He hasn't put up a lot of points, but he's been among their best forwards game in and game out. He has improved in so many areas. His size, and he noticeably quicker.

Once the Pens got the lead, they sat back a bit. He was injured around the time the Pens took the lead.

On the other hand, Gus has given me some hope. He will get muscled off the puck sometimes and struggle with big forwards, but they team absolutely needs his puckhandling and mobility.

With the D core we have, Gus looks like Mike Green out there.
- PhillySportsGuy

i did have a complaint about gus last night, way too many shots into pads that bounced off them right out of the zone. it almost looked like the malaise/fear/stickgripping was wearing off on him too which i guess is only to be expected...

For all the hate on Mez, did you notice that he was only on the ice for two goals against (one of which was on the PK) in five games played.
- strongsupporter

and set the play which resulted in the first and until recently ONLY pp goal in game one

That wasn't all that long ago.. and he also traded (gave up) on JvR. He has zero track record of being confident in his decisions. Every time he says something about someone being safe, they end up out of the org.

Richards, Carter, JvR, Bryz, Laviolette.

I like Homer.. and I believe his heart is in the right place, but there needs to be confidence at the top.. and I dont believe there is.
- jak521

It was what, 3 years ago? That's a long time in Hockey. And he didn't give up on JVR, he traded him for other youth and got a good defenseman in return,

Since the Carter/Richards trades he has been patient. He changed the core of the team and has stuck with it to this point.
- MJL

and we must STAY patient... they got young guys from that trade please please don't trade them before they have a chance to develop

Agree 100%. Its been my frustation for years with this organization. I love the desire to win. I love that they will spend beyond comprehention including eating contracts, burying them in the minors like they have done in the past, signing free agents but the lack of patience is maddening. I'm sick of seeing Flyers draft picks develop elsewhere because they aren't willing to go threw growing pains. I am sick of seeing draft picks traded for aging veterans or expiring contracts (Kubina, et all). as I stated a million times, they started a rebuild when they moved guys just hitting their prime (Carter and Richards) even tho they wanted to call it changing the culture or retooling or whatever it was at the time. when you move guys in their prime and bring in 18 and 20 year old and start building around a 22/23 yr old (Giroux at the time), you are rebuilding. So stick with the rebuild. I will want to smash my TV if they make major moves to this core, esp for older players. they will need to remake this defense at some point but I really have no idea when any of their defensive prospects will be ready so that may be slow going
- nastyflyergirl

YES THIS