Well, we'll see. He's nothing special, but he is a good 13th forward at least.

I would traded Kimmo if he wanted to because he deserves a Cup as much as anyone else in the league.
- jmatchett383

The sad part is that the situation he was placed in this season was unfair. Expecting a smallish, 38-year-old defenseman to be your top defender...even typing it out, it sounds ridiculous.

I can wait for Morin, Alt, Hagg, Ghost. I'm glad that Gus is playing. But the Flyers have to make the call on this stuff, and stop dancing around it. If we're awful, then be awful. But don't be awful with older, aging players.

Move Coburn on, let Timonen decide where he wants to go, see what you have for 50 games in Lauridsen and Manning. If they have a future, great. If they have no future, then at least you know.

But at 1-7...if you're going to be bad, be bad and give the young players a chance to play at the NHL level. Don't be bad while playing Coburn and Timonen 20-plus minutes a night.

All indications to me from what I've seen so far is that Berube is on the Couturier train and he's going to let it ride a little bit. I think he needs meaningful minutes to continue to develop and even though he's had some mistakes, I actually like why I see from him. I see some more confidence than last year.
- funmaster18

Couturier did a great job last night. Obviously its going to be tough to get his offensive game going when his assignments are to take on the other teams best players night in and out and of course that will lead to "he's a bust, we should have drafted Hamilton" comments all year long

I agree with most of this, except that a lot of veterans have NMCs (Hartnell, Vinny), modified NTCs (Coburn, Grossmann), or are not very attractive (Streit). I think we're going to have them around a long, long time.
- jmatchett383

I'm sure Mrs. Streit thinks Mark has a nice personality.....

I dont mind a trade every now and again, but there has to be some sort of stability...

Let guys develop properly. Look at the Blues.. perfect mix of patience, drafting well, and smart moves by the GM at the right time. They are gonna be a very good team for a lonnggg time.
- jak521

let us hope

Is it even worth it though? I'd trade Grossmann, but why give up Coburn if you're at least not going to get the same value in return? I get that the team needs to something, either internally or via trade, but Holmgren cannot go into his "trade-for-the-sake-of-trading" mode.
- Flyers_V88

I guess that's true. I still feel like he has value. I imagine at least 1 GM loves his physical ability. Big guy who can skate at a trade deadline where there aren't many defenseman available.

I feel like our defenseman aren't terrible. They're just all 2nd or 3rd pairing guys. When put in a different situation they may succeed.

Mez and O'Donnell were the top pairing for Tampa before coming to the Flyers. They were terrible as a top pair. As a third pair, they were tremendous.

I'm sure Mrs. Streit thinks Mark has a nice personality.....
- johndewar

Hall might get waived. He was kept for his faceoff prowess, but Couturier seems to have gotten a lot better on faceoffs. When Vinny returns, the team had 3 solid faceoff men without Hall.
- PhillySportsGuy

i imagine there will be more injuries

Not sure if there is a connection or if someone mentioned this earlier but the Flyers played noticeably better once Timonen left the game.

I was not drinking last night, but I sincerely felt the need to, while watching that mess in the 2nd period.
- johndewar

i drank.

i imagine there will be more injuries
- -davies-

If the Flyers were half decent this year, we would already be complaining about how unlucky we are with injuries.

In the woods?
- PLindbergh31

i was gonna go there but it was too obvious

Have we overanalyzed and argued over the Couturier line getting the opening faceoff last night yet?

I guess that's true. I still feel like he has value. I imagine at least 1 GM loves his physical ability. Big guy who can skate at a trade deadline where there aren't many defenseman available.

I feel like our defenseman aren't terrible. They're just all 2nd or 3rd pairing guys. When put in a different situation they may succeed.

Mez and O'Donnell were the top pairing for Tampa before coming to the Flyers. They were terrible as a top pair. As a third pair, they were tremendous.
- PhillySportsGuy

Exactly -- the Flyers have individual pieces that aren't part of their future that can help other teams. I'm no fan of Meszaros, but closer to the trade deadline, he can certainly offer a contender some veteran depth.

The pieces we have don't fit well. But there are some players who can help other teams.

I guess that's true. I still feel like he has value. I imagine at least 1 GM loves his physical ability. Big guy who can skate at a trade deadline where there aren't many defenseman available.

I feel like our defenseman aren't terrible. They're just all 2nd or 3rd pairing guys. When put in a different situation they may succeed.

Mez and O'Donnell were the top pairing for Tampa before coming to the Flyers. They were terrible as a top pair. As a third pair, they were tremendous.
- PhillySportsGuy

Great post except for one small fact.
O'Donnell never played for Tampa.

All indications to me from what I've seen so far is that Berube is on the Couturier train and he's going to let it ride a little bit. I think he needs meaningful minutes to continue to develop and even though he's had some mistakes, I actually like why I see from him. I see some more confidence than last year.
- funmaster18

i might need therapy if he gets traded

Great post except for one small fact.
O'Donnell never played for Tampa.
- strongsupporter

pffft facts.

Not sure if there is a connection or if someone mentioned this earlier but the Flyers played noticeably better once Timonen left the game.
- BiggE

Once the Pens got the lead, they sat back a bit. He was injured around the time the Pens took the lead.

On the other hand, Gus has given me some hope. He will get muscled off the puck sometimes and struggle with big forwards, but they team absolutely needs his puckhandling and mobility.

With the D core we have, Gus looks like Mike Green out there.

I'll say this. Good or bad I'll never stop watching the flyers. So I really hope they turn it around soon.
- funmaster18

I am the same way. A glutton for punishment. I also can't cheer for them to lose so I really hope they sort this gongshow out and soon.

Exactly -- the Flyers have individual pieces that aren't part of their future that can help other teams. I'm no fan of Meszaros, but closer to the trade deadline, he can certainly offer a contender some veteran depth.

The pieces we have don't fit well. But there are some players who can help other teams.
- AllInForFlyers

For all the hate on Mez, did you notice that he was only on the ice for two goals against (one of which was on the PK) in five games played.

I guess that's true. I still feel like he has value. I imagine at least 1 GM loves his physical ability. Big guy who can skate at a trade deadline where there aren't many defenseman available.

I feel like our defenseman aren't terrible. They're just all 2nd or 3rd pairing guys. When put in a different situation they may succeed.

Mez and O'Donnell were the top pairing for Tampa before coming to the Flyers. They were terrible as a top pair. As a third pair, they were tremendous.
- PhillySportsGuy

They are being paid to be better than that. I think the Flyers 5-6 is paid more than most teams 3-4 defensemen.

Great post except for one small fact.
O'Donnell never played for Tampa.
- strongsupporter

Ok, but the point can be made about Mez.

We absolutely need a new culture. We need patience and belief from the top of the org.

I like Homer. But watching him over the past few years.. It seems as though he never has faith in his own moves. Trading players after signing them to long contracts. Trading guys after they dont get their careers off to a blazing start. Saying one thing and doing another. We need to have a stable, confident and patient leader at the top. We dont have that.
- jak521

Since the Carter/Richards trades he has been patient. He changed the core of the team and has stuck with it to this point.

I feel like Flyers fans are turning into Eagles fans. A bunch of WIP idiots.

I read a tweet last night mentioning trading Couts, a 1st and either Cousins, Laughton, or Lauridson for Vanek.

Ill be painfully honest.. The one thing this team desperately needs is patience from the org. We have a tonnnn of raw talent with huge potential. Lets be patient! Im ok with a few years of meh hockey if it will allow us to build our team from the ground up.

Lets take a look at the top 10 teams in the NHL right now, and how many times they made the playoffs in the past ten years...

SJ-9/10 years
Col-5/10 years
Pitt-7/10 years
Det-10/10 years
Tor- 1/10
Ana- 7/10 years
Stl-5/10
Mtl-7/10 years
Tb-5/10 years
Chi- 5/10 years

The Flyers? 8/10

8 of those 10 have had multiple losing seasons in the past 10 years... Be smart. Be patient. Dont try to win it all every year AT ALL COSTS. Let your team mold itself. Draft well.
- jak521

Agree 100%. Its been my frustation for years with this organization. I love the desire to win. I love that they will spend beyond comprehention including eating contracts, burying them in the minors like they have done in the past, signing free agents but the lack of patience is maddening. I'm sick of seeing Flyers draft picks develop elsewhere because they aren't willing to go threw growing pains. I am sick of seeing draft picks traded for aging veterans or expiring contracts (Kubina, et all). as I stated a million times, they started a rebuild when they moved guys just hitting their prime (Carter and Richards) even tho they wanted to call it changing the culture or retooling or whatever it was at the time. when you move guys in their prime and bring in 18 and 20 year old and start building around a 22/23 yr old (Giroux at the time), you are rebuilding. So stick with the rebuild. I will want to smash my TV if they make major moves to this core, esp for older players. they will need to remake this defense at some point but I really have no idea when any of their defensive prospects will be ready so that may be slow going

I agreed with the "tact" to a certain degree... But yes it has failed and they are indeed lost. Case in point... This is a tough pill to swallow but the pronger trade really was a disaster.
Yes we had that wonderful run but look what's happened since... That trade is the epitome of this front office... Trading away the future for short term gain and now the chickens have come home to roost. Looking at the players we have traded away and what we have now is troubling. They keep trying to win now...
They're philosophy is akin to picking up a prostitute... Quick and easy but never white satisfied and sometimes leaves you with herpes and in this case as this season is going, we definitely have the herpes.
- JoeRussomanno

more like HPV but...

the pronger trade violated the credo that they announced when homer came into the GM job and i was wary then. the excuses made since are insufficient.

Ok, but the point can be made about Mez.
- PhillySportsGuy

What point?