I'm actually not angry -- I was when my "insight" was questioned, but those are just numbers and player personnel departures.

I'm not trying to be "angry" or "sure." I'm just pointing out that we keep getting told that it was the coach, it was hard hard they're playing.

It's like anything else: It all comes back to the talent that you have.
- AllInForFlyers

don't worry, you're just responding to "haughty culture"

So after they don't make playoffs this season are you still going to believe they have the talent? Or wi we still have to be patient blah blah blah new coach new season blah blah blah
- SMS4016

I'm going to look at why they don't make the playoffs. Plenty of teams with talent miss the playoffs. TB had the two top scorers in the League, and the 2nd leading goal scorer in the League. They missed the playoffs last year.

I differ a bit with you there man. I think that defense is as much of a concern as anything else on the team.

Not one guy is a threat from that back end as of now. In a transition game or goals. Not (frank)ing one. They give the forwards very little support on the rush, cant hit a barn door with the puck, and that team speed? The forwards have to hang back like morons to wait for the D to skate.

They have no threat from the back end, and its painful to watch.

In terms of forwards one of the big lessons I hope they learned is to screen the players better that they bring in. While a guy like Zherdev for example can score, he will also (frank) you more often than naught with poopty defensive play. While a guy like Simmonds is supposed to have grit and a good net presence, he will kill you with defensive play. Same goes for a guy like Hartnell.

WHoever they bring in, and especially if they want those pieces to play a big part on the team they have to make sure they are well rounded players. Too many guys on this team are not. More than anything, evaluate and focus on work ethic. Bringing in guys with a questionable work ethic (Yakupov) will lead to disaster imo.
- flyer_nutter

see you are scaring me again, because I think I agree with 90% of this

especially the D
I think at least one guy on each pair has to be a legit threat to score or at least set up a goal (the way Carle used to)
right now the puck goes back to the blue line and it's a black hole

see you are scaring me again, because I think I agree with 90% of this

especially the D
I think at least one guy on each pair has to be a legit threat to score or at least set up a goal (the way Carle used to)
right now the puck goes back to the blue line and it's a black hole
- Marc D

Is there a team in the League that has a legit threat to score on every D pair?

Carle took a beating in this thread on a regular basis. Now there's a lot of people bringing up his name.

By this logic we could just trade 5 players "fanning on shots every game" for the 1st overall pick.

Good lord. The 29 other teams in the league aren't there to service the Flyers. They see how Read and everyone else is playing right now. They're here to win, not to help us.
- hereticpride

Paul gaustad got traded for a 1st round pick at the deadline. Freaking Paul gaustad!!!!!!!! Let me say that again so you hear me!!! Paul gaustad!!!! Teams overpay at trade deadline. The players I mentioned are good decent players that would bring back a nice return as far as picks. The ? I posed is do we move in that direction. Roster players for picks. Legitimate ?

Paul gaustad got traded for a 1st round pick at the deadline. Freaking Paul gaustad!!!!!!!! Let me say that again so you hear me!!! Paul gaustad!!!! Teams overpay at trade deadline. The players I mentioned are good decent players that would bring back a nice return as far as picks. The ? I posed is do we move in that direction. Roster players for picks. Legitimate ?
- SMS4016

Depends. Really it's hard to move a veteran player that isn't in the last year of his deal. All they really have in that category is Timonen and Meszaros.

That's also why we should stay far away from a rental like Vanek. Only a contender with a good chance at the Cup should trade for a few months of him. He's likely going to Minnesota as a UFA for 8 years, $ 7.5 million unless another team wants to top that. The Flyers should not be that team.

Is there a team in the League that has a legit threat to score on every D pair?

Carle took a beating in this thread on a regular basis. Now there's a lot of people bringing up his name.
- MJL

the Coyotes, or at least they come close.

So Russ Cohen was on Twitter discussing Ollie Maatta...here is our ensuing exchange:

@isaiah520 @sportsology did u like him over Laughton @ the time of the draft?

@sportsology @isaiah520 A lot more. I had Maatta ranked as the 6th best defenseman. I didn't have Laughton as a first rounder to be honest.

@isaiah520 @sportsology I saw 1 of those "re-draft" articles a yr later & Laughton was right behind OM...would u agree they're close potential-wise?

@sportsology @isaiah520 Yes, but Maatta is better overall. I like Laughton as a third line player with some offense and a lot of defense and grit.

the Coyotes, or at least they come close.
- wilsonecho91

Not sure what their pairings are. Definitely Yandle and OEL. Morris is putting up points so far this year. But he hasn't been a big point producer in the last 3 years or so.

Not sure what their pairings are. Definitely Yandle and OEL. Morris is putting up points so far this year. But he hasn't been a big point producer in the last 3 years or so.
- MJL

Stone is the other guy. I think he is on the 3rd pairing, but 1st PP unit. And Morris. They are all pretty solid.

Is there a team in the League that has a legit threat to score on every D pair?

Carle took a beating in this thread on a regular basis. Now there's a lot of people bringing up his name.
- MJL

Not every team has an offensive guy on every pair, that is true. But right now the defensive stay at home guys are paired together on the Flyers, are getting big minutes, and are out there with the top 2 lines. Puck goes back to Coburn or Grossmann on the blue line, most of the time the attack dies. I'm not blaming these two guys. It is a bad mix of defenseman that lack the ability to transition the puck quickly and keep possession. It is killing them every single game.

I always supported Carle. And at the time they let him go, I admit I agreed with that decision, I think Tampa gave him too much. Having him around now would fix some of the imbalance on the back end. It is easy in retrospect to say this but it would have been nice for them to have locked him up to reasonable deal before he hit UFA.

Stolarz will not be in net tonight as London faces Laughton and Oshawa
- ob18

Ouch...

Patterson has his first descent start of the season and Stollie gets his first loss (in which he played pretty well) and they go back to patterson?

So Russ Cohen was on Twitter discussing Ollie Maatta...here is our ensuing exchange:

@isaiah520 @sportsology did u like him over Laughton @ the time of the draft?

@sportsology @isaiah520 A lot more. I had Maatta ranked as the 6th best defenseman. I didn't have Laughton as a first rounder to be honest.

@isaiah520 @sportsology I saw 1 of those "re-draft" articles a yr later & Laughton was right behind OM...would u agree they're close potential-wise?

@sportsology @isaiah520 Yes, but Maatta is better overall. I like Laughton as a third line player with some offense and a lot of defense and grit.
- isaiah520

Laughton can play, Maata can play. Laughton's going to need a little more time -- maybe just this season -- before he cracks an NHL lineup.

I wonder if that will be in Philadelphia, though.

Stone is the other guy. I think he is on the 3rd pairing, but 1st PP unit. And Morris. They are all pretty solid.
- wilsonecho91

Stone is raw. Have to see how he pans out.

That's also why we should stay far away from a rental like Vanek. Only a contender with a good chance at the Cup should trade for a few months of him. He's likely going to Minnesota as a UFA for 8 years, $ 7.5 million unless another team wants to top that. The Flyers should not be that team.
- Feanor

amen to this

Not every team has an offensive guy on every pair, that is true. But right now the defensive stay at home guys are paired together on the Flyers, are getting big minutes, and are out there with the top 2 lines. Puck goes back to Coburn or Grossmann on the blue line, most of the time the attack dies. I'm not blaming these two guys. It is a bad mix of defenseman that lack the ability to transition the puck quickly and keep possession. It is killing them every single game.

I always supported Carle. And at the time they let him go, I admit I agreed with that decision, I think Tampa gave him too much. Having him around now would fix some of the imbalance on the back end. It is easy in retrospect to say this but it would have been nice for them to have locked him up to reasonable deal before he hit UFA.
- Marc D

teams aren't challenging our points. we can't get shots thru...really miss having an accurate bomb back there.

Not every team has an offensive guy on every pair, that is true. But right now the defensive stay at home guys are paired together on the Flyers, are getting big minutes, and are out there with the top 2 lines. Puck goes back to Coburn or Grossmann on the blue line, most of the time the attack dies. I'm not blaming these two guys. It is a bad mix of defenseman that lack the ability to transition the puck quickly and keep possession. It is killing them every single game.

I always supported Carle. And at the time they let him go, I admit I agreed with that decision, I think Tampa gave him too much. Having him around now would fix some of the imbalance on the back end. It is easy in retrospect to say this but it would have been nice for them to have locked him up to reasonable deal before he hit UFA.
- Marc D

I think you make a good point. Which is why I state that the Flyers right now, need to tweak the mix. They're one player too heavy right now on the stay at home defensive side. They need a two way defenseman who can play in all situations. I'm not comfortable with Byfuglien. I don't want another offensive defenseman who is just adequate defensively at best.

As far as Carle is concerned, easy to look back in hindsight. Why let Carle walk if you're going to sign Streit a year later. Carle is the better player. But I'm like you, I know what I said when he left. And I'm not going to go back on that and change my mind because I have new information. I thought signing Carle to that number would hurt their ability to get a true #1.

amen to this
- Marc D

That's the thing -- they don't even need Vanek-level production. And it's good that they aren't paying for it, because they really don't have the assets to do that.

They just need two guys who can give them a combined 90-100 points.

Not that those guys grow on trees -- they don't. I'm not pretending that a 55-point winger is out there, waiting to be dropped into our lineup, at the cost of no assets.

But this team would look different. I think -- repeat, think -- that they could go on a tear, health permitting, if they got some more help.

Steve Mason -- that dude is making a believer out of me. They're getting the goaltending.

What would this team look like if they could get an early goal or two, put pressure on other teams and cause them to open up?

Laughton can play, Maata can play. Laughton's going to need a little more time -- maybe just this season -- before he cracks an NHL lineup.

I wonder if that will be in Philadelphia, though.
- AllInForFlyers

he'd be a piece in a deal, but not the main one. hell, he might replace Couts nxt yr if the latter gets shipped out.

That's the thing -- they don't even need Vanek-level production. And it's good that they aren't paying for it, because they really don't have the assets to do that.

They just need two guys who can give them a combined 90-100 points.

Not that those guys grow on trees -- they don't. I'm not pretending that a 55-point winger is out there, waiting to be dropped into our lineup, at the cost of no assets.

But this team would look different. I think -- repeat, think -- that they could go on a tear, health permitting, if they got some more help.

Steve Mason -- that dude is making a believer out of me. They're getting the goaltending.

What would this team look like if they could get an early goal or two, put pressure on other teams and cause them to open up?
- AllInForFlyers

It's just not realistic. You want the Flyers to have what no team out there has. Not to mention the Salary Cap issues.

It's just not realistic. You want the Flyers to have what no team out there has. Not to mention the Salary Cap issues.
- MJL

Nobody thought that Ville Leino was a 50-point winger.

Somebody has a player out there like Leino, a guy who just needs to play.

Somebody has that guy.

I call Head Scout of Sweden!
- jmatchett383

Fine, you take Sweeden, I'll take that hockey hotbed known as Tahiti

i get your frustration, but w/ the haul that darcy got back for Pommer and the last draft, things should improve nxt yr. your team is really screwed by contracts that are tough to move in a shrunken cap yr. we know what that's all about.
- isaiah520

they were dancing at practice

Nobody thought that Ville Leino was a 50-point winger.

Somebody has a player out there like Leino, a guy who just needs to play.

Somebody has that guy.
- AllInForFlyers

Not sure how that matters. What team has the offensive depth that you say the Flyers need? I keep asking you that. Boston is about the deepest offensively. Sharks are close. Majority of teams in the NHL have 4-6 reliable offensive players on the roster. You state that you need 9 productive forwards. How do you define productive? And you want the Flyers to add two more 40-50 pt players. Not realistic. Especially with the Salary Cap.