Yes. Hilarious.

He looks laughably terrible. So much so that you think a team will part with a top 15 pick for him.
- hereticpride

ReaLly? I stated a team would part with a top 15 pick for read? Interesting? I do not recall that. I do however recall posting a ? Of if at deadline if we aRe offered like #13 pick for LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE coburn and read combo fo we accept. Meaning 2 current players for a higher pick. Meaning do we start trading roster players for picks. But you're right read looks decent. At fanning on shots every game anyways

[quote=-davies-]

I'm actually not angry -- I was when my "insight" was questioned, but those are just numbers and player personnel departures.

I'm not trying to be "angry" or "sure." I'm just pointing out that we keep getting told that it was the coach, it was hard hard they're playing.

It's like anything else: It all comes back to the talent that you have.

ReaLly? I stated a team would part with a top 15 pick for read? Interesting? I do not recall that. I do however recall posting a ? Of if at deadline if we aRe offered like #13 pick for LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE coburn and read combo fo we accept. Meaning 2 current players for a higher pick. Meaning do we start trading roster players for picks. But you're right read looks decent. At fanning on shots every game anyways
- SMS4016

Read is guilty at what a lot of players on this team are guilty of. He has to bear down on the puck, and make the plays that are there. The Flyers have to get crisper in their offensive execution. Frustration is making things snowball. This team's biggest issue is mental, not physical.

I'm actually not angry -- I was when my "insight" was questioned, but those are just numbers and player personnel departures.

I'm not trying to be "angry" or "sure." I'm just pointing out that we keep getting told that it was the coach, it was hard hard they're playing.

It's like anything else: It all comes back to the talent that you have.
- AllInForFlyers

What was Nik Zherdev's problem? He had boatloads of talent. One of the more talented players in the League when he was here. With all the talent he had, he should've been a superstar in this League.

And you know who else keeps telling us that they need to play harder? The Coach does.

What was Nik Zherdev's problem? He had boatloads of talent. One of the more talented players in the League when he was here.
- MJL

no heart

What was Nik Zherdev's problem? He had boatloads of talent. One of the more talented players in the League when he was here.
- MJL

he never learned how to drive

What was Nik Zherdev's problem? He had boatloads of talent. One of the more talented players in the League when he was here.
- MJL

Nikolai Zherdev's bad attitude isn't offset by Zac Rinaldo's good attitude.

Zherdev not caring if he scored isn't offset by Rinaldo's inability to score.

Production eliminates such things as attitude from the equation -- having Zac Rinaldo or Matt Read not produce means the same thing as Nikolai Zherdev not producing.

It doesn't matter why. It only matters whether you do or not.

Read is guilty at what a lot of players on this team are guilty of. He has to bear down on the puck, and make the plays that are there. The Flyers have to get crisper in their offensive execution. Frustration is making things snowball. This team's biggest issue is mental, not physical.
- MJL

I agree a lot of it is mental. But at some point, and at what your point is, even you are going to have admit the talent level isn't that grsndios. I'd love to know where that pointbis with you. Not trying to start a fight I'm just curious what it's going to take? I personally started doubting after the way they lost to Boston and devils. And 3 weeks into lockout season my mind was made up. This season and team are a wash for me. I'm just waiting for the hammer to drop

Nikolai Zherdev's bad attitude isn't offset by Zac Rinaldo's good attitude.

Zherdev not caring if he scored isn't offset by Rinaldo's inability to score.

Production eliminates such things as attitude from the equation -- having Zac Rinaldo or Matt Read not produce means the same thing as Nikolai Zherdev not producing.

It doesn't matter why. It only matters whether you do or not.
- AllInForFlyers

Who said anything about Rinaldo? You said it comes down to talent. You're dodging the question. If it's all about talent, why wasn't Zherdev a star in this League? The question has zero to do with Rinaldo or Matt Read.

And you're seriously bringing up a 4th line player and his inability to score as being relevant?

And I'll take Rinaldo on my team over Zherdev every time! If only winning Hockey was just about scoring goals.

ReaLly? I stated a team would part with a top 15 pick for read? Interesting? I do not recall that. I do however recall posting a ? Of if at deadline if we aRe offered like #13 pick for LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE coburn and read combo fo we accept. Meaning 2 current players for a higher pick. Meaning do we start trading roster players for picks. But you're right read looks decent. At fanning on shots every game anyways
- SMS4016

By this logic we could just trade 5 players "fanning on shots every game" for the 1st overall pick.

Good lord. The 29 other teams in the league aren't there to service the Flyers. They see how Read and everyone else is playing right now. They're here to win, not to help us.

Who said anything about Rinaldo? You said it comes down to talent. You're dodging the question. If it's all about talent, why wasn't Zherdev a star in this League? The question has zero to do with Rinaldo or Matt Read.

And you're seriously bringing up a 4th line player and his inability to score as being relevant?

And I'll take Rinaldo on my team over Zherdev every time! If only winning Hockey was just about scoring goals.
- MJL

I'm not dodging anything -- I keep telling you the same thing, over and over. You bring up a player who isn't on the roster, hasn't been for three years.

I bring up a guy who is on the roster RIGHT NOW.

Your guy is relevant?

My guy isn't?

Which guy played yesterday for the Philadelphia Flyers?

That's why it matters. Your analogy is baseless. Because your guy isn't even on this CONTINENT.

well J. Rimer has now connected dots not previously connected - Flyers/Sedins.

I agree a lot of it is mental. But at some point, and at what your point is, even you are going to have admit the talent level isn't that grsndios. I'd love to know where that pointbis with you. Not trying to start a fight I'm just curious what it's going to take? I personally started doubting after the way they lost to Boston and devils. And 3 weeks into lockout season my mind was made up. This season and team are a wash for me. I'm just waiting for the hammer to drop
- SMS4016

Here's the bottom line. There's two ways to look at it. Even if this team was 7-1 right now, and playing great Hockey. Realistically, they would still be looking at having to improve the defense. And some of their young players would have to mature more, and develop more into what they're going to be in the future. For this team to be a legitimate Cup contender. Along with the the goaltending having to stay at the level that Mason is playing at now. There are some definite ifs there. Like I said, that was all known coming into the Season.

Now the other way to look at it. Does this team have the talent on paper, to be a solid team and a playoff team? I say yes, and I still believe that. But they have to move on from this dysfunction that they're currently under.

I'm not dodging anything -- I keep telling you the same thing, over and over. You bring up a player who isn't on the roster, hasn't been for three years.

I bring up a guy who is on the roster RIGHT NOW.

Your guy is relevant?

My guy isn't?

Which guy played yesterday for the Philadelphia Flyers?

That's why it matters. Your analogy is baseless. Because your guy isn't even on this CONTINENT.
- AllInForFlyers

The example I brought up is relevant to the discussion of is talent all that matters. And your statement that as always, it comes down to talent.

My analogy isn't baseless. You're dodging it because it proves your statement to be flat out wrong.

It's no secret that Zherdev was an extremely talented player. Who played himself right out of the NHL.
Now imagine if along with that talent, he had a strong work ethic, and came to the rink to play hard every game. If he had a strong competitive spirit, and a refuse to lose attitude? What kind of player would he be then? No need to answer, because the answer is already known.

If talent is all that matters, why does Giroux have zero goals? Why isn't his talent pulling him through. You blame his linemates. Which I think is pure bunk! Talent alone, doesn't get you squat in this League.

Soooooooo
the Sedins eh?
no thanks
they're as anti-Flyers as you can get

The example I brought up is relevant to the discussion of is talent all that matters. And your statement that as always, it comes down to talent.

My analogy isn't baseless. You're dodging it because it proves your statement to be flat out wrong.

It's no secret that Zherdev was an extremely talented player. Who played himself right out of the NHL.
Now imagine if along with that talent, he had a strong work ethic, and came to the rink to play hard every game. If he had a strong competitive spirit, and a refuse to lose attitude? What kind of player would he be then? No need to answer, because the answer is already known.

If talent is all that matters, why does Giroux have zero goals? Why isn't his talent pulling him through. You blame his linemates. Which I think is pure bunk! Talent alone, doesn't get you squat in this League.
- MJL

Not having enough talent doesn't get you squat in this league. Single out every bad apple you want, but that's not going to make Maxime Talbot a goal-scorer.

You like to say that "Tye McGinn's going to come down to earth." Why do you say that? He works hard, right?

Because you know that talent matters, and it matters more when there is hard work. Always has. Always will.

Did I say the Flyers need to add more talent? I did. And it's true. But I should be more precise when I'm dealing with you: "The Flyers need to add more talent in the form of players who are productive."

Simple enough; it's what I meant in the first place. I certainly wasn't saying "Bring in two guys who don't produce."

total Joker/Batman/you complete me- thing going on here lately

I'm actually not angry -- I was when my "insight" was questioned, but those are just numbers and player personnel departures.

I'm not trying to be "angry" or "sure." I'm just pointing out that we keep getting told that it was the coach, it was hard hard they're playing.

It's like anything else: It all comes back to the talent that you have.
- AllInForFlyers

i hope I didn't sound too negative, i appreciate your posts and how much thought you put into them. i or others may have different ideas about letting the kids percolate a little longer before freaking out. that's all

Stolarz will not be in net tonight as London faces Laughton and Oshawa

i hope I didn't sound too negative, i appreciate your posts and how much thought you put into them. i or others may have different ideas about letting the kids percolate a little longer before freaking out. that's all
- -davies-

No, you're fine -- like I said, the Flyers will either wait, or trade, or go through free agency. I certainly would rather not have Sean Couturier become a 60-70 point player somewhere else.

All I was saying is that the problem never was totally system-based, or coach-based. They can improve those things, certainly.

Soooooooo
the Sedins eh?
no thanks
they're as anti-Flyers as you can get
- FLYERSROCK!

Because they score, right?

Not having enough talent doesn't get you squat in this league. Single out every bad apple you want, but that's not going to make Maxime Talbot a goal-scorer.

You like to say that "Tye McGinn's going to come down to earth." Why do you say that? He works hard, right?

Because you know that talent matters, and it matters more when there is hard work. Always has. Always will.

Did I say the Flyers need to add more talent? I did. And it's true. But I should be more precise when I'm dealing with you: "The Flyers need to add more talent in the form of players who are productive."

Simple enough; it's what I meant in the first place. I certainly wasn't saying "Bring in two guys who don't produce."
- AllInForFlyers

The Flyers don't need Max Talbot to be a goal scorer. They need him to be a solid two way player, bring a physical presence on the forecheck. Play well on the PK, and chip in with whatever offense he can.
As far as Tye McGinn is concerned. I have never once stated that hard work alone is enough. You also have to have talent if a player is expected to be a goal scorer. I've never completely dismissed talent from the equation. You're right, hard work alone without talent, won't get you a lot. You'll be the Ottawa Senators. An over achiever that made a nice showing but will ultimately come up short.

Two points that I've asked you about that you won't address. One statement you made is that a team needs to have 9 productive forwards. What do you consider a productive forward. And what teams have 9 productive forwards?

Lack of talent is not why the Flyers aren't scoring. Adding more talent is not the miracle cure.

I do think getting Vinny back will be a big boost. But I honestly dont know what to expect from Hartnell anymore.
- hereticpride

What Hartnell are we going to get is anybody's guess.

anyone who trades jake for little shall die by my sword
- -davies-

I feel the same way

once he skates off those pre season dumplings he is going to crush it

Here's the bottom line. There's two ways to look at it. Even if this team was 7-1 right now, and playing great Hockey. Realistically, they would still be looking at having to improve the defense. And some of their young players would have to mature more, and develop more into what they're going to be in the future. For this team to be a legitimate Cup contender. Along with the the goaltending having to stay at the level that Mason is playing at now. There are some definite ifs there. Like I said, that was all known coming into the Season.

Now the other way to look at it. Does this team have the talent on paper, to be a solid team and a playoff team? I say yes, and I still believe that. But they have to move on from this dysfunction that they're currently under.
- MJL

So after they don't make playoffs this season are you still going to believe they have the talent? Or wi we still have to be patient blah blah blah new coach new season blah blah blah