would you guys consider moving simmonds?
- webleedblue

for what?

The point we were debating was that if a change of message/voice hasn't helped (no post-coaching change bump), then the problem must either be systematic/habits/psychological/culture that will take Berube months to sort out, or the more frightening conclusion that this team really wasn't any good at all to begin with.
- Tomahawk

You think he can sort it out? He was part of the problem.

You think he can sort it out? He was part of the problem.
- strongsupporter

Elaborate.

would you guys consider moving simmonds?
- webleedblue

I wouldn't, unless it's a helluva deal.

The guy has struggled for the first 8 games this year, but so have a lot of his teammates. It's just 8 games ... the guy is still a good player.

Elaborate.
- BulliesPhan87

He has been part of the coaching staff for a long time (I think since 2003).
Now he is going to implement a new philosophy?

You think he can sort it out? He was part of the problem.
- strongsupporter

Assistants tend to play the role of good cop and supportive mentor to the players... they also aren't supposed to contradict the head coach in the room, so I doubt whatever message he's offering now will come off as stale or that the players will dismiss him because the relationship dynamic is status quo.

With that said, I would have rather them go outside the organization, and they still might this summer, but I'm reserving judgement on Chief until at least the end of the season.

He has been part of the coaching staff for a long time (I think since 2003).
Now he is going to implement a new philosophy?
- strongsupporter

I think that's the idea. I mean, it's not like the philosophy has gone completely unchanged since 2003.

The point we were debating was that if a change of message/voice hasn't helped (no post-coaching change bump), then the problem must either be systematic/habits/psychological/culture that will take Berube months to sort out, or the more frightening conclusion that this team really wasn't any good at all to begin with.
- Tomahawk

It is a good point, and I believe like most things the answer is in between somewhere.

They certainly will be better playing with a coach they buy into, as it looked like to me they had stopped playing for Lavi and believing in his system.

At the same time the make up of the team has some fatal flaws as constructed.

I also think there is some truth in that they are playing with zero confidence and look like they expect to lose. There is a huge mental aspect to sports and to deny this is wrong , imo. Some of the things sound "cliche" but the lack of confidence gets in their heads, becomes pervasive team wise.

For instance they grip their sticks too tight when shooting, they lack confidence in their mates to do their job and start running around, they take a bit off a cross ice pass, or force a pass that isn't there. All these mental mistakes are compounded when losing, and they are in a horrible cycle right now.

Some of these things may be fixable with the current team. It is my opinion that the D as constructed almost needs to be blown up to be fixed.

They have some very good players, of that there is no doubt in my mind.

Berube has a ton of work to do with them.

I thought the Flyers looked too slow to play Lavy's uptempo system ... and damn if they don't also look too slow to play Berube's defense-first system.

Maybe "too slow" isn't the right description. More like "slow to react." So many times there will be a loose puck and it seems every Flyer on the ice just stares at it for 2 seconds before it occurs to them that they're supposed to go get it. This standing-around stuff is killing me.

I think that's the idea. I mean, it's not like the philosophy has gone completely unchanged since 2003.
- BulliesPhan87

There is a good article by Nik Cotsonika (Yahoo) on Berube dated Oct 15. Worth a read.

for what?
- JAKEw1234

good package off MDZ and lets say kristo and a 2nd?

There is a good article by Nik Cotsonika (Yahoo) on Berube dated Oct 15. Worth a read.
- strongsupporter

I saw that, decent read.

No practice Saturday or Sunday. They sure have earned a weekend off. Well deserved. Should take Monday off too. Nice 3 day weekend.
- PLindbergh31

No on ice practice or complete weekend off? entirely 2 different things. Berube may have them studying video. who knows. I know one thing, when I am in a super funk, sometimes I need time away from the ice. Maybe that is where they are. I get your frustration. we are all disappointed and frustrated

I thought the Flyers looked too slow to play Lavy's uptempo system ... and damn if they don't also look too slow to play Berube's defense-first system.

Maybe "too slow" isn't the right description. More like "slow to react." So many times there will be a loose puck and it seems every Flyer on the ice just stares at it for 2 seconds before it occurs to them that they're supposed to go get it. This standing-around stuff is killing me.

- FlyerGuy

They're behind the play a lot, and it makes them look slower than they probably are (they're still not fast, though, lol).

Not having confidence in the system and/or in teammates executing the system correctly are usually the culprits. They're actually having to make ad hoc decisions out there instead of reading and reacting via the system.

Whether it was under Lavi, or currently under Chief, it seems this team is in love with freelancing and going for the pretty play. They suck at meat and potatoes.

would you guys consider moving simmonds?
- webleedblue

Yes please.

No on ice practice or complete weekend off? entirely 2 different things. Berube may have them studying video. who knows. I know one thing, when I am in a super funk, sometimes I need time away from the ice. Maybe that is where they are. I get your frustration. we are all disappointed and frustrated
- nastyflyergirl

Good point. And a fair one. Maybe they are doing video work. Or better yet, maybe Berube challenged these guys to go home and take a long hard look at themselves in the mirror over the weekend.

That second period last night made me sick. It's one thing to lose and make mistakes, but not competing, and going through the motions is complete garbage.

good package off MDZ and lets say kristo and a 2nd?
- webleedblue

When was the last time the Rangers and Flyers made a deal? Lindros for Johnsson? IIRC, that was only because Lindros forced Clarke to trade him there.

There is a good article by Nik Cotsonika (Yahoo) on Berube dated Oct 15. Worth a read.
- strongsupporter

that was good, ty

So you didn't think this team was going to be as good as an 95-point, 8th seed playoff team during the summer? You had them missing the PO's?
- Tomahawk

What gives you the idea that I didn't think this team could be a playoff team? I still think they can be a playoff team.

Connor MacDavid
- Orpik44

Getting too far ahead

Good point. And a fair one. Maybe they are doing video work. Or better yet, maybe Berube challenged these guys to go home and take a long hard look at themselves in the mirrors over the weekend.

That second period last night made me sick. It's one thing to lose and make mistakes, but not competing, and going through the motions is complete garbage.
- PLindbergh31

I agree and that is why I want them to reward hard work with more ice time and vice versa no matter who the players is out there. If rinaldo is going to bust his ass every shift then I want him to get more than 5 mins. I know he is a 4th liner who can take a few shifts on other lines here and there but he works his ass off. reward hard work with ice. you don't want to work hard, you sit no matter who you are. Not talking about mistakes like Schenn gripping the stick and managing to hit Fleury's stupid stick. I am talking just flat out lazy or dumb ass plays

I love G. he's my fave player but I really want to see him step up and lead this team.

When was the last time the Rangers and Flyers made a deal? Lindros for Johnsson? IIRC, that was only because Lindros forced Clarke to trade him there.
- Tomahawk

doesn't mean it can't happen now?

good package off MDZ and lets say kristo and a 2nd?
- webleedblue

Yes I'd do that

Battle of Flyers prospects tonight

Oshawa vs London (Laughton vs Stolarz as long as he gets the start)

The point we were debating was that if a change of message/voice hasn't helped (no post-coaching change bump), then the problem must either be systematic/habits/psychological/culture that will take Berube months to sort out, or the more frightening conclusion that this team really wasn't any good at all to begin with.
- Tomahawk

I think that it's the systematic/habits/psychological issues that are at play. not that this team just isn't good.