LA was a much better team even as they were struggling under Murray then the Flyers are now.
- MJL

I thought your position was that this team was potentially really good, just not playing well as a team.

I thought your position was that this team was potentially really good, just not playing well as a team.
- Tomahawk

There's a difference between saying they "could be a whole lot better", and "could be really good".

Sure, they're capable, but none outside of G and Vinny are money in the bank.

Hartnell used to be, but it's looking like that's in the rear-view for him now.
- Tomahawk

Some of those players are developing players. Hard to be money in the bank when a player such as Voracek is just emerging. Or at least seemed to be emerging last year. Read and Simmonds scored at a 20 goal pace two years in a row. Hartnell has had multiple 20+ seasons, as well as 2 30 goal campaigns. You don't expect all of them to be clicking along at maximum production. But for all of them to be failing this poorly offensively, at the same time? Just a coincidence. I doubt it. And it's not about lack of talent or ability. There is something chronically wrong with this team mentally as a whole.

I thought your position was that this team was potentially really good, just not playing well as a team.
- Tomahawk

Seriously?

Seriously?
- MJL

So you didn't think this team was going to be as good as an 95-point, 8th seed playoff team during the summer? You had them missing the PO's?

You don't expect all of them to be clicking along at maximum production. But for all of them to be failing this poorly offensively, at the same time? Just a coincidence. I doubt it. And it's not about lack of talent or ability. There is something chronically wrong with this team mentally as a whole.
- MJL

I'm not sure I believe it yet, but some would say that water has found its level.

I'm not sure I believe it yet, but some would say that water has found its level.
- Tomahawk

they've been bad offensively for over a half season, but i think they're better than this...seriously doubt their plyoff chances though.

@DNFlyers When I asked Holmgren about Meszaros ($4M) as expensive scratch: "There were a few guys Craig wanted to scratch. Andrej ended up being 1st."
- isaiah520

I question the relevance of him bringing up Meszaros' cap hit when that number was decided by Tampa Bay back in 2008 before he had four serious injuries.

So you didn't think this team was going to be as good as an 95-point, 8th seed playoff team during the summer? You had them missing the PO's?
- Tomahawk

I did not see this coming.

I felt they would be at least a .500 team and in the hunt for a play off spot, and have to admit the goaltending was the biggest question mark going into the season

Second biggest question was would Lavi keep a simplified system he had going at the end of last year.

I guess we got the answers.

I admit to thinking they would be in the hunt for a playoff spot, though.

When you can't believe in "Tolly", what kinda world do we live in?

http://touch.mcall.com/#s.../-1/article/p2p-77839000/

I question the relevance of him bringing up Meszaros' cap hit when that number was decided by Tampa Bay back in 2008 before he had four serious injuries.
- Feanor

they decided, we agreed to take it on. Mez has to be shell shocked after all he's been thru. hope he can get it together.

I predicted they would finish 4th in the Metro and miss the playoffs.

I did not foresee them struggling like this offensively, especially on the Powerplay when they actually have enough players for two good units, unlike last year.

The offense will get better, eventually. I can't see them scoring 113 goals for the season. But I also see them missing the playoffs by a good margin.

Honestly I had Pitt, NYR, Washington, and the Islanders ahead of them.

I thought they would be even with or ahead of Columbus, Carolina, and NJD.

The start has been a shock for me.

they decided, we agreed to take it on. Mez has to be shell shocked after all he's been thru. hope he can get it together.
- isaiah520

Good support from his coach

Personally I think a week off is going to help both them and us. Everyone needs to take a deep breath. Then they get their butt's kicked in practice on Mon. Shake it off and begin really working on system Tues and Wed.
I can't wait to get Vinny back in the line-up. Hard to believe I'd miss him so much after so few games. But he does good things for this team even if he does look like a Hollywood villian.
Hartnell - meh... I think G misses him but otherwise he was pretty miserable on the ice when he was playing. Both Mcginn and Raffle have played better.
Goal aside I think Simmonds played a horrendous game last night. He needs to figure this crap out...
Read, Grossmann and L Schenn have been getting a ton of flak recently but I think all three have shown up and given a crap this season.
The ONLY penalty I liked last night was L Schenn's. Hell ya, you go ahead and clear the porch... It wasn't even into Mason! So it's an improvement.

We have a lot of analysis and opinions , but to be honest, watching this team is depressing and numbing. And I dont mean comfortably numb, more like shell shock, or sports ptss.does anyone else feel this way? At what point do we wear bags over our heads if we go to the game? Please no references to the 1 bag 2 bag etc.this team is already coyote ugly.

Good support from his coach
- strongsupporter

Giroux keeps saying "we are doing good things out there".
I wonder what things they are.

They are in all likelihood a lottery team this season.

When the offense finally gets going, the goalie play is likely to suffer.

The D is horrid and needs a complete make over.

They still take way too many penalties and play dumb a lot.

I have no confidence they can come back from any deficit and no reason to expect them to hold a lead going into the 3rd period.

I did not see this coming.

I felt they would be at least a .500 team and in the hunt for a play off spot, and have to admit the goaltending was the biggest question mark going into the season

Second biggest question was would Lavi keep a simplified system he had going at the end of last year.

I guess we got the answers.

I admit to thinking they would be in the hunt for a playoff spot, though.
- Marc D

Yeah, LA was in a similar spot when they fired Murray... they were a good team, but more a bubble team on paper than a contender... they were on the fringes of the playoff picture... they couldn't buy goals despite having some talented players... Sutter came in, a light when on, and they got a huge bump in the standings from the change. Mostly due to that initial bump, they made the PO's.

We haven't seen that bump from the change here, which is a strong indication that "different message", "fresh perspective", and "new voice" weren't the entirety of the problem. There are some signs of improvement, but most of the troubling patterns that are leading to L's are still there under the surface.

Giroux keeps saying "we are doing good things out there".
I wonder what things they are.
- strongsupporter

I thought they were good against Vancouver, got a terribly unlucky bounce, and then fell apart defensively in the third. The way they lost that game must have been a huge mental blow for all the players. I know it was enough for me to stop watching the games live for a while.

Personally I think a week off is going to help both them and us. Everyone needs to take a deep breath. Then they get their butt's kicked in practice on Mon. Shake it off and begin really working on system Tues and Wed.
I can't wait to get Vinny back in the line-up. Hard to believe I'd miss him so much after so few games. But he does good things for this team even if he does look like a Hollywood villian.
Hartnell - meh... I think G misses him but otherwise he was pretty miserable on the ice when he was playing. Both Mcginn and Raffle have played better.
Goal aside I think Simmonds played a horrendous game last night. He needs to figure this crap out...
Read, Grossmann and Schenn have been getting a ton of flak recently but I think all three have shown up and given a crap this season.
The ONLY penalty I liked last night was Schenn's. Hell ya, you go ahead and clear the porch... It wasn't even into Mason! So it's an improvement.
- FlyersGrace

+1 on Vinnie.

The Simmonds Schenn line is generating chances but are awful defensively.
I think Vinnie will stabilize that line's two way play a bit.

I was happy with Couts and Talbot last night for the most part, they played with some energy and looked like the best line most of the game.

Yeah, LA was in a similar spot when they fired Murray... they were a good team, but more a bubble team on paper than a contender... they were on the fringes of the playoff picture... they couldn't buy goals despite having some talented players... Sutter came in, a light when on, and they got a huge bump in the standings from the change. Mostly due to that initial bump, they made the PO's.

We haven't seen that bump from the change here, which is a strong indication that "different message", "fresh perspective", and "new voice" weren't part of the problem. There are some signs of improvement, but most of the troubling patterns that are leading to L's are still there under the surface.
- Tomahawk

that LA team had a very nice balanced D with offensively capable defenseman and some very good shut down veteran types as well

I don't see the Flyers having that.

would you guys consider moving simmonds?

that LA team had a very nice balanced D with offensively capable defenseman and some very good shut down veteran types as well

I don't see the Flyers having that.
- Marc D

The point we were debating was that if a change of message/voice hasn't helped (no post-coaching change bump), then the problem must either be systematic/habits/psychological/culture that will take Berube months to sort out, or the more frightening conclusion that this team really wasn't any good at all to begin with.

would you guys consider moving simmonds?
- webleedblue

For Eberle, but not in the East and definitely not in the division.