Such as?
- Feanor

Any 2nd round pick in this years draft

Closer to $3.6m
- BulliesPhan87

3.625 to be exact. Happy. Still not worth it

Good thing he's not getting paid $4m then.

Read still has a great shot (he had a potential game winner against Vancouver ring off the bar) and is sound defensively. I'm not going to judge individual players by production when the entire team is in the worst offensive funk anyone can remember.
- Feanor

This...he's played what 129 NHL games? Yeah, bust city!

3.625 to be exact. Happy. Still not worth it
- SMS4016

Closer to $3.5m than $4m, really.

But 4 real, I don't agree with your valuation at all. If they can get a better player or a young player with upside, sure. But a second round pick? No.

Matt Read is worth a more than a 2nd rounder, but is there any point arguing with the most reactionary and least realistic person on this forum? I don't think so.

Just one note for everyone who may be on the "TRADE EVERY VET WE HAVE NOW" train. If you think the team is bad, and you want to place a bunch of young guys with little full-time NHL experience into the fray, all they're going to do is be overburdened and get burnt out. There's a reason why Edmonton, despite having all of the young talent in the world, hasn't done what Pittsburgh has. Actually, there are several reasons, and defense/goaltending have something to do with it. Part of it is that all of the responsibility of the team was put squarely on the young players, and there wasn't enough veteran leadership to help shoulder it.

But if you strip away all veteran responsibility and lay it all on young players, and they are buried by it, you are effectively stunting their development and inviting a culture of losing (right now, it's actually better to have these guys playing elsewhere while the team struggles).

I'll agree that, yes, trades may need to be made in the future. But I don't believe that icing a lineup of 10 NHL players and 10 AHL players is the way to go, as all it's gonna do is make the AHL players feel like they can't hack it. So make a trade or two if it helps the team now and in the future, but don't go stripping away the team for nothing just to let young guys play.
- jmatchett383

Great post. Agree 100%.

Such as?
- Feanor

As part of a package for Tyler Myers, for example.

Wow.... Kronwall will be back before Hartnell. Take it to the bank. Hartnell got knocked out for a month at the hands of gravity.
- PLindbergh31

I get it , you win the award for being the most negative Flyers fan here ..Ok actually that is 2Real..but what is the point in this comment?

How much do you know about Harnells injury which makes you qualified to speak on it?

Shouldn't we be ragging on the reason the Flyers suck is because Rosehill is on the team and Rinaldo had on dumb game over the past 2 seasons.

Matt Read is worth a more than a 2nd rounder, but is there any point arguing with the most reactionary and least realistic person on this forum? I don't think so.
- Feanor

Sorry mom, I was just playing.

i dunno about that...it seems more deer in headlights. simmonds looked like he was going to cry after he scored.
- -davies-

Right now they lack beleif in themselves, and so lack confidence that it's almost paralyzing.

Each of the teams you mentioned play with an identity or system that is visible and effective. The Flyers don't have one. There is no consistency or game plan, imo. They play such a bad zone in their own end. It makes me sick to watch.
- flyers2001

Blame that on the Coach that got fired. The new Coach is trying to fix all that.

Today would have been a great day for the return of Ripped Fuel. God, do I miss him.

As part of a package for Tyler Myers, for example.
- Tomahawk

I wouldn't be opposed to that. But Buffalo would want a lot more than Read for Myers, even though he hasn't been productive since 2012. He would definitely be younger than Read, though, so he fulfills half of your criteria.

Rafl and
Mason...

that's it for the bright spots from last night.

2nd period was the worst I've see..wtf happened there?

On the play where Kimmo got hurt, and the Pens eventually scored, it looked like a 5-3 PP the way the Pens were passing it around.

Our D in the offensive zone is a black hole right now, when the puck goes back to the point it just disappears, also clearing the zone continues to be real bad.

I know they aren't scoring goals but the problem starts from the back end on out.

Simmond/Schenn line are awful defensively,
offensively they are generating chances but to say lack of finish is being kind right now.

Streit looked more animated in the third after Kimmo went down, the one PP in the third with him along the right wall and Jake at the top of the umbrella actually looked good.

Feel a little bad for Mason, but they are giving him a second chance and so far he is the lone star.

Couturier's best year to date is his first season. If something over time doesn't get better, what is your definition of that?
- PLindbergh31

Really, so your comparing a full Season to a Season that is 8 games old? Couturier is noticeably better in a number of areas. And has noticeably matured.

His upper body never shows anything but the numbers to McLeod... his legs/skates turn to stop at the last minute, but his upper body is always facing the end boards.
- Tomahawk

It looked to me had he kept going it would have been a shoulder to shoulder hit. Agree to disagree.

I disagree; sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. Like everything else, it depends on the players you have.

Chicago made Toews their captain at 22 years old, cleared out a ton of veterans to make that happen, took their lumps. They only added veterans like Marian Hossa after they improved started making the playoffs.

But they let those young kids play -- Keith, Seabrook, Kane, Byfuglien when he was there. Nick Leddy, David Bolland. They let those kids play, take their lumps.
- AllInForFlyers

Name a team that went with all youth and didn't have any veteran older players to aid in the development of the young players?

I wouldn't be opposed to that. But Buffalo would want a lot more than Read for Myers, even though he hasn't been productive since 2012. He would definitely be younger than Read, though, so he fulfills half of your criteria.
- Feanor

Maybe they'd lower the asking price if we agreed to take Ville Leino off their hands...

Ah, the bottom of the barrel. We have 7 days off to regroup, I wonder if any moves will be made in this time?

Blame that on the Coach that got fired. The new Coach is trying to fix all that.
- MJL

Really, strange they fired a guy the players stopped listening to and hired his assistant that was in the room the whole time.

Maybe Berube has a system that can work, but he clearly doesn't have the ear of the players. Their effort is a clear demonstration of that.

It looked to me had he kept going it would have been a shoulder to shoulder hit. Agree to disagree.
- MBFlyerfan

If he had kept going, he would have plastered his own face into the glass.

I'd trade him for a younger productive player in a heartbeat, though. He's already 27-28... there might not be much, if any, upside there.
- Tomahawk

What I don't understand about this fanbase is this: We're a bad team right now. We were relatively bad last year, before a late surge made it look better than it probably was.

So your post makes total sense to me. It's how every spot should be evaluated.

What I don't understand, in reading the various posts, is how so many players from a team that is clearly not very good are viewed as crucial pieces in moving forward.

We're bad. I don't like it, but I accept it.

But what baffles me is the concept of anyone saying that more than just a few players -- at most -- are crucial to this rebuilding process.

Because we're bad. The players on the roster have contributed to that. Not all that many players from a bad team are absolutely crucial to rebuilding.

Matt Read's presence, or lack thereof, isn't going to help or cripple this rebuild. He's a complementary piece, nice to have, but if someone offers you a chance to get a player with more upside, then you really should do that.

Name a team that went with all youth and didn't have any veteran older players to aid in the development of the young players?
- MJL

No. Disagree if you want, move on with your life. But I don't provide answers to your questions, on demand.

Really, so your comparing a full Season to a Season that is 8 games old? Couturier is noticeably better in a number of areas. And has noticeably matured.
- MJL

With each passing game, it's a small sample size still... Pretty soon 8 games turn into 16, 16 turn into 32 and so forth.

Which game will L. Schenn graduate from being the teams 6th dman? I know the answer. When Lauridsen and Manning are in the lineup a few weeks from now.

He absolutely gave up on JvR. If JvR was scoring 30= goals as a Flyer, he wouldnt have been moved. Despite what anyone wants to say.. we lost that trade on day one. I was one of the biggest JvR supporters/apologists on this site.. but even I wanted to believe it would be an even trade. I still have tons of hope for Schenn, but he will never be dynamic enough. We gave up a top line forward for a 3/4 d-man.

3 years really isnt all that long. In Flyers hockey it may be, but thats the problem we have in the first place
- jak521

Well we disagree then. L. Schenn has the potential to be a top pair defensive defenseman in my opinion.