Speaking only for myself, I was concerned when we let go of Grabner given the spark that he showed in the playoffs just before the trade. He was a high draft pick and appeared to be finding that pedigree. I will admit the trade was tempered somewhat by the hope of getting Ballard, who I knew little about but was sold to us as a sounds physical defenseman with some offensive upside. I assumed Gillis and co had done their homework. Within a few months it was clear to me that we had lost that trade but, like Kassian, the hope was there that that view would be proven wrong.

Samuelsson was an excellent utility guy for us which we still haven't found a replacement for. That said, he was already suffering from the injuries which continue to plague him and Sturm was a bum. I liked the Booth trade.

All your other points I'd agree with. So hindsight may be 20/20 but a lot of us seem to have seen these trades pretty close to what they would become when they happened. Given that this is a HB board and MG is in charge of running a multi-million dollar franchise, that's rather disturbing.
- AlexF

I am wondering what Ballard will do this year. It is kind of funny that we traded Grabner who turned out to be top6 for what was billed to be offensive, maybe puck carrying, edgy hipchecking top4 defenseman. And today our best chance in a trade to improve our team is trading a top4 d for a top6 forward.

I don't think Ballard was given a fair chance- poor player/asset management- the blame doesn't stop with AV. We should have traded Raymond instead of Grabner, cheaper option and I know 20/20 but there are times to trade and stockpile talent when every team talks about wanting competition for positions- ntc's and falling in love with your players really restricts your options. It is like we are looking for a certain player and always settling for something less or different that doesn't address the need.

Somethings terribly wrong if the Canucks don't beat this laugh of a team tonight.

Canucks win 4-2. Kassian shows up big time just like the 1st time he played his old team.
- boonerbuck

When Vantel originally asked for predictions on this road trip, I had the Canucks beating PHI in regulation and BUF in OT. I'm holding to that line for tonight. Canucks in OT.

When Vantel originally asked for predictions on this road trip, I had the Canucks beating PHI in regulation and BUF in OT. I'm holding to that line for tonight. Canucks in OT.
- AlexF

I want to see Kassian stand out for the positive. I don't want to see him running around, out of control, but show some life and be engaged in the play.

anyone know who the head pro scout is? that guy should be fired.
- therealagent

They already demoted him over a year ago and hired Mark Crawford's brother.

Also, I'm certainly not going to defend his bad trades, but way to list all the players MG traded away and only list two of the players he acquired.

Not like Ehrhoff, Higgins, or Lapierre were important pieces the year they went to the finals.

At least paint the full picture.

It's turning into a witch hunt on here for anyone with a shred of optimism or positivity towards the team or Gillis these days.

Think I'll stick to non-hockey talk on this board from now on, and save the hockey discussion for HF...

I am wondering what Ballard will do this year. It is kind of funny that we traded Grabner who turned out to be top6 for what was billed to be offensive, maybe puck carrying, edgy hipchecking top4 defenseman. And today our best chance in a trade to improve our team is trading a top4 d for a top6 forward.

I don't think Ballard was given a fair chance- poor player/asset management- the blame doesn't stop with AV. We should have traded Raymond instead of Grabner, cheaper option and I know 20/20 but there are times to trade and stockpile talent when every team talks about wanting competition for positions- ntc's and falling in love with your players really restricts your options. It is like we are looking for a certain player and always settling for something less or different that doesn't address the need.
- hillbillydeluxe

Like I've said in the past, Gillis' record of achievements with this team does speak fairly loudly but I believe the team needs a different vision at this juncture.

Yeah, thats a bit out of place but don't let that dismiss an otherwise excellent post. It doesnt make those other names a wash.
- boonerbuck

I disagree, to me the post was like a Michael Moor film, sensational from one perspective without telling the whole truth.

They already demoted him over a year ago and hired Mark Crawford's brother.

Also, I'm certainly not going to defend his bad trades, but way to list all the players MG traded away and only list two of the players he acquired.

Not like Ehrhoff, Higgins, or Lapierre were important pieces the year they went to the finals.

At least paint the full picture.

It's turning into a witch hunt on here for anyone with a shred of optimism or positivity towards the team or Gillis these days.

Think I'll stick to non-hockey talk on this board from now on, and save the hockey discussion for HF...
- Fosco

amen

They already demoted him over a year ago and hired Mark Crawford's brother.

Also, I'm certainly not going to defend his bad trades, but way to list all the players MG traded away and only list two of the players he acquired.

Not like Ehrhoff, Higgins, or Lapierre were important pieces the year they went to the finals.

At least paint the full picture.

It's turning into a witch hunt on here for anyone with a shred of optimism or positivity towards the team or Gillis these days.

Think I'll stick to non-hockey talk on this board from now on, and save the hockey discussion for HF...
- Fosco

Those were all very good trades but only Higgins is here so 2/3 of that was a dead end. Still, for what was given up for them was totally justifiable and served this team very well(excellent in Hoff's case) during the short Stanly Cup opening we had. Those moves very well may have played a big part in winning a cup under a different coach even.

When we talk about our young developed top six talent and 1st and 2nd round pics being traded.... it seems like monumental long term damage. Again, under a different coach, Grabner and Hodgson would probably be playing here providing what Gilllis cannot seem to find since and at reasonable contracts.

They already demoted him over a year ago and hired Mark Crawford's brother.

Also, I'm certainly not going to defend his bad trades, but way to list all the players MG traded away and only list two of the players he acquired.

Not like Ehrhoff, Higgins, or Lapierre were important pieces the year they went to the finals.

At least paint the full picture.

It's turning into a witch hunt on here for anyone with a shred of optimism or positivity towards the team or Gillis these days.

Think I'll stick to non-hockey talk on this board from now on, and save the hockey discussion for HF...
- Fosco

amen brother.

Those were all very good trades but only Higgins is here so 2/3 of that was a dead end. Still, for what was given up for them was totally justifiable and served this team very well(excellent in Hoff's case) during the short Stanly Cup opening we had. Those moves very well may have played a big part in winning a cup under a different coach even.

When we talk about our young developed top six talent and 1st and 2nd round pics being traded.... it seems like monumental long term damage. Again, under a different coach, Grabner and Hodgson would probably be playing here providing what Gilllis cannot seem to find since and at reasonable contracts.
- boonerbuck

This is possible, but likely at the expense of other established players. No matter who the coach does Hodgson take ice away from Kesler? How many years can you expect he's going to be your third line C? Does Kesler get off his ego and play on Hodgson's wing? Maybe. At the time Grabner had shown a glimpse, but Raymond just scored 25 goals playing with Kesler. Coin flip there. I seem to recall people being a bit put off that Grabner had in fact even been picked...why oh why didn't nonis take Giroux

This is possible, but likely at the expense of other established players. No matter who the coach does Hodgson take ice away from Kesler? How many years can you expect he's going to be your third line C? Does Kesler get off his ego and play on Hodgson's wing? Maybe. At the time Grabner had shown a glimpse, but Raymond just scored 25 goals playing with Kesler. Coin flip there. I seem to recall people being a bit put off that Grabner had in fact even been picked...why oh why didn't nonis take Giroux
- 1970vintage

He'd have been playing somewhere between AV's bench and the trade block anyway.

You are way off with this statement: it kind of threatens your credibility when you don't know who many of the scouts are. Thomas Gradin, Ron Delorme, and Harold Snepsts? There are 4 or 5 others who played in the NHL as well.

Having said that...the Canucks' scouting system does truly suck.
- rdfred

no. i actually said pro scouts. the guys who watch the nhl. the guys you mention are amateur scouts. those are the ones who watch amateurs, the guys who don't get paid as well as the oilers.

Those were all very good trades but only Higgins is here so 2/3 of that was a dead end. Still, for what was given up for them was totally justifiable and served this team very well(excellent in Hoff's case) during the short Stanly Cup opening we had. Those moves very well may have played a big part in winning a cup under a different coach even.

When we talk about our young developed top six talent and 1st and 2nd round pics being traded.... it seems like monumental long term damage. Again, under a different coach, Grabner and Hodgson would probably be playing here providing what Gilllis cannot seem to find since and at reasonable contracts.
- boonerbuck

Been a while since I posted last but anyway had a minute and figured i'd chime in...you hit the nail on the head with the different coach comment. Back in 2011 as most of you know the nucks were #1 in power play, penalty kill, goals for and goals against and in the history of the NHL only 2 other teams were able to accomplish that - the Habs in the 70's and the Islanders in the 80's and ya, both were friggin dynasties - I argue the canucks of 2011 were better than those teams as they did it in a 30 team league with a salary cap, yet we didn't even win 1 cup - AV couldn't make an adjustment to save his life, played favorites and basically screwed us out of multiple cups, he should have been gone the 1st time we lost to Chicago...end rant!

Been a while since I posted last but anyway had a minute and figured i'd chime in...you hit the nail on the head with the different coach comment. Back in 2011 as most of you know the nucks were #1 in power play, penalty kill, goals for and goals against and in the history of the NHL only 2 other teams were able to accomplish that - the Habs in the 70's and the Islanders in the 80's and ya, both were friggin dynasties - I argue the canucks of 2011 were better than those teams as they did it in a 30 team league with a salary cap, yet we didn't even win 1 cup - AV couldn't make an adjustment to save his life, played favorites and basically screwed us out of multiple cups, he should have been gone the 1st time we lost to Chicago...end rant!
- PopCanBong

hard to put all the blame on the coach. he didn't play goal in boston. he didn't pull his groin against the sharks or break his hand against the bruins. he didn't let in a terrible goal in game 5 against nashville to force more travel to win game 6. he tried to keep his team disciplined in an unevenly refereed final. he didn't cause the offense to completely dry up in the final.

he had his faults but those faults got him to game 7. quinn had his faults as well and did the same thing. look at the talent quinn had to work with here with bure, mogilny, linden, gelinas, courtnall, messier, ridley, momesso and robin bawa. he failed too but for some reason quinn is a god and AV is the devil. i don't get it.

crawford sucked too. he should have choked out burke and gotten a trade done for a #1 goalie and he would have won as well.

damn coaches. it's always their fault. not the GM's and certainly not the players.

although with this group today, it's definitely the GMs fault.

This is possible, but likely at the expense of other established players. No matter who the coach does Hodgson take ice away from Kesler? How many years can you expect he's going to be your third line C? Does Kesler get off his ego and play on Hodgson's wing? Maybe. At the time Grabner had shown a glimpse, but Raymond just scored 25 goals playing with Kesler. Coin flip there. I seem to recall people being a bit put off that Grabner had in fact even been picked...why oh why didn't nonis take Giroux
- 1970vintage

I was hoping for Stewart at the time actually. In hind sight, Giroux.

This is possible, but likely at the expense of other established players. No matter who the coach does Hodgson take ice away from Kesler? How many years can you expect he's going to be your third line C? Does Kesler get off his ego and play on Hodgson's wing? Maybe. At the time Grabner had shown a glimpse, but Raymond just scored 25 goals playing with Kesler. Coin flip there. I seem to recall people being a bit put off that Grabner had in fact even been picked...why oh why didn't nonis take Giroux
- 1970vintage

kesler on hodgson's wing would have made the most sense.
although if cody hadn't been traded the canucks would have had a very different look anyway because they wouldn't have signed him to a 5mill/year deal. even at 4, they would have had to part with one of their core dmen and for sure gillis would have messed up that trade.

3-2 Sabres, Hodgson in on 2 of 3 goals, Hoff with an assist.

Those were all very good trades but only Higgins is here so 2/3 of that was a dead end. Still, for what was given up for them was totally justifiable and served this team very well(excellent in Hoff's case) during the short Stanly Cup opening we had. Those moves very well may have played a big part in winning a cup under a different coach even.

When we talk about our young developed top six talent and 1st and 2nd round pics being traded.... it seems like monumental long term damage. Again, under a different coach, Grabner and Hodgson would probably be playing here providing what Gilllis cannot seem to find since and at reasonable contracts.
- boonerbuck

I wonder how different the past few seasons would have been if Gillis fired AV when he took the job here. I would imagine a few more playoff round wins and maybe a cup or two. AV got badly out coached in a couple of our playoff disasters. I know, I know. Hindsight is 20/20.

I wonder how different the past few seasons would have been if Gillis fired AV when he took the job here. I would imagine a few more playoff round wins and maybe a cup or two. AV got badly out coached in a couple of our playoff disasters. I know, I know. Hindsight is 20/20.

- Chest Rockwell

but don't you remember that scott arniel was the "other" guy. i don't think he would have been the difference maker.

but don't you remember that scott arniel was the "other" guy. i don't think he would have been the difference maker.
- therealagent

Scott Arniel wasn't the only other guy available when Gillis came in; Todd McLellan, Joel Quenville and Paul MacLean were available back then. Once again, Hindsight is 20/20.

I wonder how different the past few seasons would have been if Gillis fired AV when he took the job here. I would imagine a few more playoff round wins and maybe a cup or two. AV got badly out coached in a couple of our playoff disasters. I know, I know. Hindsight is 20/20.

- Chest Rockwell

I've been saying this from the start. Joe Quenville was available the very summer Gillis was hired. Since then he's won 2 cups. So many folks on here said that the Hawks totally screwed their team for a whole generation making the moves to win that first cup only to follow up with the second a couple of years later. Gillis has in fact been the one to screw this team's future up for a generation. We are in the generation gap right now. An example of what can happen with the gap is the Calgary Flames. The bridge between prospects and vets has been so wide that the two are never competing in the same era.

but don't you remember that scott arniel was the "other" guy. i don't think he would have been the difference maker.
- therealagent

Hahahah.... why not Quenville? Since then Sutter has won a cup. Could have hired him....

I've been saying this from the start. Joe Quenville was available the very summer Gillis was hired. Since then he's won 2 cups. So many folks on here said that the Hawks totally screwed their team for a whole generation making the moves to win that first cup only to follow up with the second a couple of years later. Gillis has in fact been the one to screw this team's future up for a generation. We are in the generation gap right now. An example of what can happen with the gap is the Calgary Flames. The bridge between prospects and vets has been so wide that the two are never competing in the same era.
- boonerbuck

Made that edit in my orginal post. Torts was available then as well.....

hard to put all the blame on the coach. he didn't play goal in boston. he didn't pull his groin against the sharks or break his hand against the bruins. he didn't let in a terrible goal in game 5 against nashville to force more travel to win game 6. he tried to keep his team disciplined in an unevenly refereed final. he didn't cause the offense to completely dry up in the final.

he had his faults but those faults got him to game 7. quinn had his faults as well and did the same thing. look at the talent quinn had to work with here with bure, mogilny, linden, gelinas, courtnall, messier, ridley, momesso and robin bawa. he failed too but for some reason quinn is a god and AV is the devil. i don't get it.

crawford sucked too. he should have choked out burke and gotten a trade done for a #1 goalie and he would have won as well.



damn coaches. it's always their fault. not the GM's and certainly not the players.

although with this group today, it's definitely the GMs fault.
- therealagent

I know I know, he didn't play a shift, but he definitely didn't put his players in a position to succeed (see Ballard for 1 example, and there are tonnes)...

I and I guess a lot of us will always wonder what if he just played Schneider in game 6 (just like in round 1 against the hawks), I thought he learned something there but he didn't. Think Cory, playing in his home town and possibly winning the cup in front of friends and family...worse case we lose and go back to Van with Luo rested and ready to go...nope.

And as far as Crawford goes, frick half of us on this board could have coached Colorado to a cup or two back when he won his 1 and only cup, as that was as stacked a team as you could get...one could argue he was even worse than A/V - I like to believe that at least A/V probably would have let Gretzky have a turn in the friggin shootout (Olympics)

to sum up - both overrated and have good records because of the team, and not because of what they offered/did.

Quinn over achieved, who saw 94 coming and A/V choked, back to back pres trophies and nothing.

Mike Brophy on CBC wrote about the hockey code, specifically about Hertl's goal. He spent a long time writing about the code, but then at the very end of the article he suggests that Edler targeted Hertl's head. He clearly didn't see the hit.
http://www.cbc.ca/sports-...ly-just-common-sense.html

what a tard.