If you add enough dummy years at the end of a contract you can make any contract look good on the cap. He had multiple years at the end of the contract where he was to make 575,000/yr and ends at the age of 42. His real salary was north of $7 mill/yr.

There's a reason these type of contracts were outlawed. Kovalchuk had a great contract until the league determined that having 4 years at the end at minimum wage until age 44 was not something they wanted to encourage.

Pronger got the money he wanted and Holmgren thought he had the cap circumvention issue worked out.

The Flyers were going to pay him nearly $30 million over 4 years which by far blows away any contract on a per year basis that he had ever played for.
- Flyers_01

But what was his cap hit?

I have a good feeling about tonight guys.

This!
The Pronger deal was working out just fine til he took a puck in the eye.
- BiggE

He was the C and going at a pt per game when he went out.
No doubt he had a few more years to give on that contract.

He was the C and going at a pt per game when he went out.
No doubt he had a few more years to give on that contract.
- exlund

This makes me think about how Pronger's leadership qualities were as valuable as his production and defense. It would likely be a whole different scenario right now if he was back in the lineup. Imagine him in that locker room, on that bench? He'd be kicking their asses. OK, I have to stop.

If you add enough dummy years at the end of a contract you can make any contract look good on the cap. He had multiple years at the end of the contract where he was to make 575,000/yr and ends at the age of 42. His real salary was north of $7 mill/yr.

There's a reason these type of contracts were outlawed. Kovalchuk had a great contract until the league determined that having 4 years at the end at minimum wage until age 44 was not something they wanted to encourage.

Pronger got the money he wanted and Holmgren thought he had the cap circumvention issue worked out.

The Flyers were going to pay him nearly $30 million over 4 years which by far blows away any contract on a per year basis that he had ever played for.
- Flyers_01

Doesn't matter that they're outlawed now. The contract was signed under the rules of the CBA at the time. That they're outlawed now is irrelevant. And doesn't in anyway change that getting a game changer and franchise defenseman for a Cap hit of under 5M was a great deal. Great trade, and a great contract. Pronger got his money, and the Flyers got what they wanted. And Holmgren thought he had the cap circumvention issue figured out? Clearly he did have it figured out. Great job by Holmgren. The only thing that ruined it, was a stick to the eye.

Nothing concrete on Vinny's return. Current rumor is he should be back after this break so 10/24. Hartnell should be out another 2 - 4 weeks though.
- FlyersGrace

Thanks. I was wondering if there was anything new. If love to see us get the win tonight but wow would it be a shocker with the way we have played some far

But what was his cap hit?
- Giroux_Is_God

$4,941,429

God, I hope the Flyers find a way to win tonight.

If not, there's no telling how many trades Homer might make over these next 7 days.

$4,941,429
- Flyers_01

You don't think any other GM would kill for Chris (frank)in Pronger at a cap hit UNDER 5 MIL?

I have a good feeling about tonight guys.
- Giroux_Is_God

I had a good feeling too. Then I got off the toilet.

God, I hope the Flyers find a way to win tonight.

If not, there's no telling how many trades Homer might make over these next 7 days.

- FlyerGuy

7. Then he rests on the 7th day.

7. Then he rests on the 7th day.
- Deasr1

You don't think any other GM would kill for Chris (frank)in Pronger at a cap hit UNDER 5 MIL?
- Giroux_Is_God

Did I argue that he had a bad cap hit? No. Length of contract and actual money paid? Yes.

Anything else you'd like to overreact to while i am here?

Did I argue that he had a bad cap hit? No. Length of contract and actual money paid? Yes.

Anything else you'd like to overreact to while i am here?
- Flyers_01

As a fan, why do you care how much he's being paid? His salary has zero effect on you as a fan. His cap hit certainly does, so that is what should be looked at. And I don't know why 7 years was an issue.

Doesn't matter that they're outlawed now. The contract was signed under the rules of the CBA at the time. That they're outlawed now is irrelevant. And doesn't in anyway change that getting a game changer and franchise defenseman for a Cap hit of under 5M was a great deal. Great trade, and a great contract. Pronger got his money, and the Flyers got what they wanted. And Holmgren thought he had the cap circumvention issue figured out? Clearly he did have it figured out. Great job by Holmgren. The only thing that ruined it, was a stick to the eye.
- MJL

Your right, all Holmgren does is sign great contracts and win trades. The man is a giant among GMs. They all wish they could sign players and trade like Holmgren.

One thing to remember, Pronger had no say in the trade to the Flyers, nor had he talked to Holmgren ahead of time. What that means is that 28 other teams thought the price to rent Pronger was to high.

28 GMs thought the price for Pronger was not a great deal.

Your right, all Holmgren does is sign great contracts and win trades. The man is a giant among GMs. They all wish they could sign players and trade like Holmgren.

One thing to remember, Pronger had no say in the trade to the Flyers, nor had he talked to Holmgren ahead of time. What that means is that 28 other teams thought the price to rent Pronger was to high.

28 GMs thought the price for Pronger was not a great deal.
- Flyers_01

Talk about a ridiculous reach. You have zero basis for knowing what any other GM thought. If that's your argument, it just went down the toilet.
How in the World can you link Pronger having no say in the trade, and not talking to Holmgren ahead of time, to meaning that 28 other teams thought the price to rent Pronger was too high?

And as far as your first statement. I wasn't talking about any other contracts that Holmgren has signed. I'm discussing the Pronger contract.

As a fan, why do you care how much he's being paid? His salary has zero effect on you as a fan. His cap hit certainly does, so that is what should be looked at. And I don't know why 7 years was an issue.
- MJL

I'm actually more concerned about the Sbisa, Lupul, 2 1sts and a 3rd. I'm also more concerned that the Flyers were prepared to carry 5 mill/yr cap hit when he retired even if he hadn't gotten injured.

As far as the actual money, the only reason i care about it is because I believe that Holmgren would've won a bidding war when he hit free agency and the numbers wouldn't have been far off of what he paid on top of the trade.

No other GM in the league would've made that trade for what Holmgren gave up. The Ducks took the Best Available Offer.

He paid a hefty premium on both ends of the deal.

Talk about a ridiculous reach. You have zero basis for knowing what any other GM thought. If that's your argument, it just went down the toilet.
How in the World can you link Pronger having no say in the trade, and not talking to Holmgren ahead of time, to meaning that 28 other teams thought the price to rent Pronger was too high?

And as far as your first statement. I wasn't talking about any other contracts that Holmgren has signed. I'm discussing the Pronger contract.
- MJL

Slow down Mr. reach around. You don't know what other GMs thought either.

I was only trying to clarify before you asked for sworn testimony that the market for Pronger was not limited. Pronger did not waive a NMC to go to the Flyers (thereby limiting his market). Pronger did not work out a long term deal ahead of time with the Flyers (thereby increasing his value to the Flyers ahead of the trade).

We know that the Ducks offered Holmgren to the league, we know that Holmgren was the highest bidder. I'm not sure what's in dispute?

One of your problems is that you take the position that everyone else has to prove everything. Why don't you prove that another GM was willing to offer the equivalent of 4 1st round draft picks? Just one.

I will await your links and or sworn testimony of the other 28 GMs.

I'm actually more concerned about the Sbisa, Lupul, 2 1sts and a 3rd. I'm also more concerned that the Flyers were prepared to carry 5 mill/yr cap hit when he retired even if he hadn't gotten injured.

As far as the actual money, the only reason i care about it is because I believe that Holmgren would've won a bidding war when he hit free agency and the numbers wouldn't have been far off of what he paid on top of the trade.

No other GM in the league would've made that trade for what Holmgren gave up. The Ducks took the Best Available Offer.

He paid a hefty premium on both ends of the deal.
- Flyers_01

You have absolutely no idea what any other GM would've done. None whatsoever. I'll trade Lupul, Sbisa, and 2 firsts for a franchise game changing defenseman every day of the week, and twice on Sunday! It's a no brainer as far as I'm concerned.
Of course he payed a hefty premium. You don't acquire a player like Pronger without doing so.
As far as you're reason for caring about the money. Doesn't hold water. Because in order to win a bidding war, the contract structure would have likely been the same. And it's even more likely that the Cap hit would've been higher in a bidding war. Because that's what a bidding war does. It drives up the price.
As far as the 35+ contract is concerned, there was also the real possibility that Pronger would've played out the contract.

Your right, all Holmgren does is sign great contracts and win trades. The man is a giant among GMs. They all wish they could sign players and trade like Holmgren.

One thing to remember, Pronger had no say in the trade to the Flyers, nor had he talked to Holmgren ahead of time. What that means is that 28 other teams thought the price to rent Pronger was to high.

28 GMs thought the price for Pronger was not a great deal.
- Flyers_01

Doesn't make sense to me at all. so based on the fact that trades happen between 2 teams, that means every trade in that happens is a bad trade to the other 28 teams? of course not. you have no idea how many teams were involved, who Anaheim wouldn't involve, whether Anaheim had specific players they targeted, etc etc

Slow down Mr. reach around. You don't know what other GMs thought either.

I was only trying to clarify before you asked for sworn testimony that the market for Pronger was not limited. Pronger did not waive a NMC to go to the Flyers (thereby limiting his market). Pronger did not work out a long term deal ahead of time with the Flyers (thereby increasing his value to the Flyers ahead of the trade).

We know that the Ducks offered Holmgren to the league, we know that Holmgren was the highest bidder. I'm not sure what's in dispute?

One of your problems is that you take the position that everyone else has to prove everything. Why don't you prove that another GM was willing to offer the equivalent of 4 1st round draft picks? Just one.

I will await your links and or sworn testimony of the other 28 GMs.
- Flyers_01

You're right, I don't know what other GM's thought. Which is why I'm not trying to tell you what they did think. Which is what you're trying to do. And which is why I don't have to prove that another GM was willing to offer the"equivalent" of 4 first round picks. because I'm not saying other GM's would do anything. Nor am I inventing fantasy. You cannot link Pronger not waiving his NMC, or not having say in the trade, or not talking to Holmgren before the trade, to 28 other GM"s in the League, and what they would, or wouldn't do. It's that simple.

Did I argue that he had a bad cap hit? No. Length of contract and actual money paid? Yes.

Anything else you'd like to overreact to while i am here?
- Flyers_01

Well we finally killed the mouse in our apartment a few nights ago and I cheered so loud I woke the neighbors at 2 in the morning.

That's considered an overreaction right?

this singer

Well we finally killed the mouse in our apartment a few nights ago and I cheered so loud I woke the neighbors at 2 in the morning.

That's considered an overreaction right?
- Giroux_Is_God

Dunno. Take a poll but I didn't argue the cap hit.

Slow down Mr. reach around. You don't know what other GMs thought either.

I was only trying to clarify before you asked for sworn testimony that the market for Pronger was not limited. Pronger did not waive a NMC to go to the Flyers (thereby limiting his market). Pronger did not work out a long term deal ahead of time with the Flyers (thereby increasing his value to the Flyers ahead of the trade).

We know that the Ducks offered Holmgren to the league, we know that Holmgren was the highest bidder. I'm not sure what's in dispute?

One of your problems is that you take the position that everyone else has to prove everything. Why don't you prove that another GM was willing to offer the equivalent of 4 1st round draft picks? Just one.

I will await your links and or sworn testimony of the other 28 GMs.
- Flyers_01

Pronger almost singlehandedly made this team a Cup contender IMO