And to use bbluechips argument, he stunk away from manning
- Bieksa#3

Manning reminds me of the Sedins ,older high end talent, with ugly brothers

To say brady is just a product of his coach is just wrong. Bellichek was fired from Clevland and was 0 - 2 or 1 - 2 and about to lose the 3rd or 4th game when Bledsoe went down and the rest is history. Brady needs Bill and vice versa.

Football is a team sport much like hockey. This isnt the NBA.

So as u said about branch being crap without Brady, same for all those guys save Wayne. And that's a fact. And who gives a poop if their 1st Rounders(o line) Steelers o line is all high picks and are garbage. How about Watkins, Gallery etc
- Bieksa#3

Marvin only played with Peyton??

Edge was old when he left?

Addai was released as well once manning got hurt?

So you think a 23 yr old edge is the same as a 30 yr old edge??? Tell that to shaun alexander who essentially like every RB drops off the planet once they hit 28 - 30

He was also 30 when he left manning and played on a terrible team. Deion branch signed a massive 30 mil year deal for Seattle in his prime and was terrible.
- Bluechip23

Branch was 27 when he left for Seattle

James was 28 when he left for Arizona

Great argument


What other excuses can u make up

Marvin only played with Peyton??

Edge was old when he left?

Addai was released as well once manning got hurt?

So you think a 23 yr old edge is the same as a 30 yr old edge??? Tell that to shaun alexander who essentially like every RB drops off the planet once they hit 28 - 30
- Bluechip23

Edge was 28 when he left

Branch was 27 when he left.

Has addai ever done anything without peyton

Manning reminds me of the Sedins ,older high end talent, with ugly brothers
- VANTEL

To say brady is just a product of his coach is just wrong. Bellichek was fired from Clevland and was 0 - 2 or 1 - 2 and about to lose the 3rd or 4th game when Bledsoe went down and the rest is history. Brady needs Bill and vice versa.

Football is a team sport much like hockey. This isnt the NBA.
- Bluechip23

So since Bledsoe and the browns suck Brady is the greatest ever

Branch was 27 when he left for Seattle

James was 28 when he left for Arizona

Great argument


What other excuses can u make up
- Bieksa#3

SO a rb and a wr are the same in age and wear and tear. Case closed. No point in even debating.

Brady 3 super bowls and 16 - 6 playoff record.

Manning 9 - 10 playoff record.

To say brady is just a product of his coach is just wrong. Bellichek was fired from Clevland and was 0 - 2 or 1 - 2 and about to lose the 3rd or 4th game when Bledsoe went down and the rest is history. Brady needs Bill and vice versa.

Football is a team sport much like hockey. This isnt the NBA.
- Bluechip23

I never said it was all his coach. Brady however threw for less than 3000 yds his first season, and if you account for his 1.5 missed gamess and throw in his season average then 3200. The first 2 Super Bowls he was nothing more than a game manager. It was all about Bill's defense and the funny rules in the Raiders game. Anyone who thinks otherwise is jaded.

So since Bledsoe and the browns suck Brady is the greatest ever
- Bieksa#3

I never once said brady is the greatest ever. You are inferring that. I merely am defending brady as being a system qb and not in the same league as Peyton.

They are both amazing and are in the same class. Peyton could very easily end up better.

I never said it was all his coach. Brady however threw for less than 3000 yds his first season, and if you account for his 1.5 missed gamess and throw in his season average then 3200. The first 2 Super Bowls he was nothing more than a game manager. It was all about Bill's defense and the funny rules in the Raiders game. Anyone who thinks otherwise is jaded.
- whosyodaddy

Peyton only beat rex grossman. Peyton has a losing record in the playoffs.

SO a rb and a wr are the same in age and wear and tear. Case closed. No point in even debating.

Brady 3 super bowls and 16 - 6 playoff record.

Manning 9 - 10 playoff record.
- Bluechip23

Yep.

By that argument Trent Dilfer has a Superbowl and Marino doesn't. Dilfer must be better.

Ray bourque was a waste of space until he got traded with a month left in his career. Now he is one of the greatest of all time.

Great argument

I never once said brady is the greatest ever. You are inferring that. I merely am defending brady as being a system qb and not in the same league as Peyton.

They are both amazing and are in the same class. Peyton could very easily end up better.
- Bluechip23

He isn't in the same class. Not close

Yep.

By that argument Trent Dilfer has a Superbowl and Marino doesn't. Dilfer must be better.

Ray bourque was a waste of space until he got traded with a month left in his career. Now he is one of the greatest of all time.

Great argument
- Bieksa#3

Look at their playoff stats. Who has the greatest single season has a qb. WHen Bill opened up the playbook Brady dominated. He has a higher QB rating career wise. Has thrown almost 100 less Int's.

He isn't in the same class. Not close
- Bieksa#3

Playoff stats matter. This isnt the premiership. What you do in crisis matters. Otherwise Tony romo would be in teh same league. He is a great stat filler.

Peyton only beat rex grossman. Peyton has a losing record in the playoffs.
- Bluechip23

I'm not a Manning fan, unless you're talking Eli. He beat a stacked Patriots team and Tom Brady twice.

Love that guy.

Anyways, none of that changes the fact the Brady benefitted greatly from his coach who certainly is among the if not the best to ever be part of the game.

PLayoff stats

Manning

Comp% - 63
Yds - 5700
TD 32
Int 22

Brady

Comp% - 62
Yds - 5970
TD 42
Int 22

The TD/INT ratio on top of the 3 super bowls plus the head to head record plus the playoff record says brady belongs in that class.

Look at their playoff stats. Who has the greatest single season has a qb. WHen Bill opened up the playbook Brady dominated. He has a higher QB rating career wise. Has thrown almost 100 less Int's.
- Bluechip23

I remember that yr well. Pats up by 40+ points and stay in the hurry up offense against the back ups just to pad their stats.

Has Denver not let off the peddle in their games this yr?

Again Brady had a far supiorior team. Manning put up 40 points last yr in the AFC final and lost. But he clearly has a far superior d then Brady has ever had, right? How often did the. Olts allow over 20 points in manning tenure. Pats in Brady's tenure? Again Manning teams haven't been half as good as bradys

I'm not a Manning fan, unless you're talking Eli. He beat a stacked Patriots team and Tom Brady twice.

Love that guy.

Anyways, none of that changes the fact the Brady benefitted greatly from his coach who certainly is among the if not the best to ever be part of the game.
- whosyodaddy

Love eli. He is killing me this year in my pool and if I Saw him i would slap him. Very true Bill in my opinion is the greatest coach of all time.

Playoff stats matter. This isnt the premiership. What you do in crisis matters. Otherwise Tony romo would be in teh same league. He is a great stat filler.
- Bluechip23

So Dilfer is better then Marino. I see what your saying

I agree that Gillis has to go but 2 core players should be moved also as well as Booth for whatever you can get (7 th)

Pick two

Edler
Kesler
Burrows
Hamhuis
Edler
Garrison
Bieksa
- VANTEL

I'd leave Burrows with the Sedins forever, personally. Even as the Sedins get older and become 2nd liners I think that'll still be a serviceable line.

I'd pick Edler and Kesler personally. They should fetch a decent return.

I'd leave Burrows with the Sedins forever, personally. Even as the Sedins get older and become 2nd liners I think that'll still be a serviceable line.

I'd pick Edler and Kesler personally. They should fetch a decent return.
- AlexF

They are the two obvious ones

I remember that yr well. Pats up by 40+ points and stay in the hurry up offense against the back ups just to pad their stats.

Has Denver not let off the peddle in their games this yr?

Again Brady had a far supiorior team. Manning put up 40 points last yr in the AFC final and lost. But he clearly has a far superior d then Brady has ever had, right? How often did the. Olts allow over 20 points in manning tenure. Pats in Brady's tenure? Again Manning teams haven't been half as good as bradys
- Bieksa#3

ALl im saying is that is the by product of what the teams decided to do. The colts decided to use their early picks on Offensive players to help run a more wide open offense. Pats decided to play ball control and win with d. DOesnt take away from Brady.

Peyton has had far more superior weapons than brady. Thats a fact and cant be debated.

YOu like your guy. I like my guy. Peyton wont be winning this year at all and neither will brady. once it gets cold and under pressure peyton much like romo will choke. He does it all the time Evidenced by his 9 - 10 record. Also the superbowl is in NY this year. Good luck to peyton in trying to play in - 20 weather.

Love eli. He is killing me this year in my pool and if I Saw him i would slap him. Very true Bill in my opinion is the greatest coach of all time.
- Bluechip23

Only his own ego gets in his way. Possibly the greatest game planner the league has ever seen. That was the beauty of today's game, Payton also has great game plans.

Marino had Schula, but Don could not change with the times at his age. Had he been a younger man we might have seen the things we see in the league today. Best pure passer in history.

Edit: I made a ton of money on the Gmen. In order to beat the Pats you have to win at the line of scrimmage. It really is that simple.

So Dilfer is better then Marino. I see what your saying
- Bieksa#3

Take the 1 situation that works in your favor and choose to ignore the 99% of ones that dont.

Defend mannings playoff stats vs brady. He chokes when it matters. Brady rises to the top. If pEyton didnt face rex grossman he would still be looking for a ring. He never won in HS, He choked at tennesse as well. The year he left they won the national title. He is mr choke