OB, I understand what you are saying.

However I keep hearing this stuff for Coburn and Giroux also. Coburn being asked to always do too much, and Giroux doesn't have talented wingers.

Its true Coots hasn't been given the best players to play with, or that he has tough match ups. There is nothing wrong with a solid 3rd line shutdown center. If that's all he will be though, he becomes expendable in the right deal for me.

Agree to disagree,
- flyer_nutter

Coburn has had good moments but seems lost. Giroux I'd bet he is not 100% and that's why you see him struggling.

No?

I'll tell you what, he's been in the middle of things pretty consistently since Chief took the reigns.
- Giroux_Is_God

Look I'm hoping he busts out but he gives me little to work with as far as offensive talent...

and coaching, too. players get mishandled by the coaches, management loses patience, trades ensue. see bob, sergei and vR, james most recently.
- hammarby31

Know what though? Even with Berube, I wouldn't blame him too much for mishandling players.

How long would Lava have kept his job here if he started benching "the best players". Snider is all about making the playoffs at all cost. I do not for a second think a coach would last long if he decided to bench a star, since it may cost them a win.

I'm sorry OB, but they aren't 12. This is the god damn NHL where they make millions of dollars to play a game. I expect them to play with some level of competancy that they haven't showed in two years. The "good" things they are starting to do are things other teams do every single (frank)ing night. If I wanted to watch a team take dumb penalties, make passes inaccurate without purpose, and run around in their defensive zone without any skill, I'll go watch the local peewee's. There are no moral victories in this league and frankly they have been irresponsible and unaccountable for the disgrace they put on the ice each night. I don't need to be told that I'm blind to the "good" things on the ice when these are things professionals should know how to do with regularity. When they stop being lazy and dumb, fans wi stop getting on them.
- Flyers1218

Well you stick to being negative, it seems to have done nothing but stress you out.

Did we get the #1 pick yet?
- Hatchet

No we'll get the 2nd pick again only to trade him a couple of years later so he can flourish with another team.

Coburn has had good moments but seems lost. Giroux I'd bet he is not 100% and that's why you see him struggling.
- ob18

Coburn has been a joke ever since he took a puck in the Pittsburgh series.

Mr. Consistency at his finest, and he isn't even being asked to carry the offense.

OB, I understand what you are saying.

However I keep hearing this stuff for Coburn and Giroux also. Coburn being asked to always do too much, and Giroux doesn't have talented wingers.

Its true Coots hasn't been given the best players to play with, or that he has tough match ups. There is nothing wrong with a solid 3rd line shutdown center. If that's all he will be though, he becomes expendable in the right deal for me.

Agree to disagree,
- flyer_nutter

If being the key word. I think professional talent evaluators and pro hockey personnel realize that Couturier's potential is much greater then that. and he's showing obvious signs of that. We read all the time that the Flyers rush players, and give up on players too quick. Now we read doubts about a player that is 20 years old. He's already a good player. At 20! He's an infant in this League.

Tim Panaccio
@tpanotchCSN
Flyers have 45 penalties so far - most in NHL


Sam Carchidi
@BroadStBull
Berube: "We have to stop taking penalties. It's been an issue in this organization for too long. It's got to get better,"


and in other news, water is wet.

Coburn has been a joke ever since he took a puck in the Pittsburgh series.

Mr. Consistency at his finest, and he isn't even being asked to carry the offense.
- flyer_nutter

Based on the way he is playing it's not likely they can trade him so my suggestion find some sort of peace with it.

No we'll get the 2nd pick again only to trade him a couple of years later so he can flourish with another team.
- Yosimar89

this is funny because it's true.

I'm sorry OB, but they aren't 12. This is the god damn NHL where they make millions of dollars to play a game. I expect them to play with some level of competancy that they haven't showed in two years. The "good" things they are starting to do are things other teams do every single (frank)ing night. If I wanted to watch a team take dumb penalties, make passes inaccurate without purpose, and run around in their defensive zone without any skill, I'll go watch the local peewee's. There are no moral victories in this league and frankly they have been irresponsible and unaccountable for the disgrace they put on the ice each night. I don't need to be told that I'm blind to the "good" things on the ice when these are things professionals should know how to do with regularity. When they stop being lazy and dumb, fans wi stop getting on them.
- Flyers1218

Tim Panaccio
@tpanotchCSN
Flyers have 45 penalties so far - most in NHL


Sam Carchidi
@BroadStBull
Berube: "We have to stop taking penalties. It's been an issue in this organization for too long. It's got to get better,"


and in other news, water is wet.
- opeth_pa

Discipline and accountability. Team oozes it.

If being the key word. I think professional talent evaluators and pro hockey personnel realize that Couturier's potential is much greater then that. and he's showing obvious signs of that. We read all the time that the Flyers rush players, and give up on players too quick. Now we read doubts about a player that is 20 years old. He's already a good player. At 20! He's an infant in this League.
- MJL

And they've already shown they know this by sending players like Laughton & Morin back to junior or else they'd be here now.

I still think they gave a decent core but to round everything out it will not be a quick fix at all, but that something Uncle Ed won't want to hear or accept.
- ob18

Honestly Ob? I think that core is the biggest question as of now. A core is the foundation and why teams like Chicago/Detriot stay competitive.

I think management has overrated the current core. Just like they did with Richards/Carter, players who excelled under a more secondary role in LA.

I'm sorry OB, but they aren't 12. This is the god damn NHL where they make millions of dollars to play a game. I expect them to play with some level of competancy that they haven't showed in two years. The "good" things they are starting to do are things other teams do every single (frank)ing night. If I wanted to watch a team take dumb penalties, make passes inaccurate without purpose, and run around in their defensive zone without any skill, I'll go watch the local peewee's. There are no moral victories in this league and frankly they have been irresponsible and unaccountable for the disgrace they put on the ice each night. I don't need to be told that I'm blind to the "good" things on the ice when these are things professionals should know how to do with regularity. When they stop being lazy and dumb, fans wi stop getting on them.
- Flyers1218

So you didn't see the Flyers outplay the Red Wings at even strength in the game tonight?
There's still some things that they need to fix obviously. But the effort and compete of the team tonight was far from a disgrace.

Honestly Ob? I think that core is the biggest question as of now. A core is the foundation and why teams like Chicago/Detriot stay competitive.

I think management has overrated the current core. Just like they did with Richards/Carter, players who excelled under a more secondary role in LA.
- flyer_nutter

Well for one they need to stick with a core and build with/around it not continue to change it as often as they do because 1 year a player doesn't play well and they feel the need to move said player.

Based on the way he is playing it's not likely they can trade him so my suggestion find some sort of peace with it.
- ob18

Dead on true.

No panic trades now, the value will be at the lowest ever.

this team sucks so many stupid penalties and emery stunk up the place tonight 5 games in and still no team work we are going to get our colective a$$es handed to us in the next 2 games

If being the key word. I think professional talent evaluators and pro hockey personnel realize that Couturier's potential is much greater then that. and he's showing obvious signs of that. We read all the time that the Flyers rush players, and give up on players too quick. Now we read doubts about a player that is 20 years old. He's already a good player. At 20! He's an infant in this League.
- MJL

How are infants MacKinnon, Monahan, and Hertl doing? I think Couturier is the Gerber bananas in their diapers.

Dead on true.

No panic trades now, the value will be at the lowest ever.
- flyer_nutter

So for me I am not going into panic mode, they have shown some improvement. What is really hurting them in the penalties like tonight 5 on 5 they took the play, the 3 power play goals is what hurt.

Well for one they need to stick with a core and build with/around it not continue to change it as often as they do because 1 year a player doesn't play well and they feel the need to move said player.
- ob18

See to me this is an evaluation year for said core, and continues on from last year.

If that young core consists of:
-Giroux, Voracek, Read
-Simmonds, Brayden Schenn
-Coots

I am to a degree okay with that, but I question the overall talent level of this team, and also that core.

See to me this is an evaluation year for said core, and continues on from last year.

If that young core consists of:
-Giroux, Voracek, Read
-Simmonds, Brayden Schenn
-Coots

I am to a degree okay with that, but I question the overall talent level of this team, and also that core.
- flyer_nutter

You also have some of them signed to contracts you may have a tough time moving.

Look who cares about, Richards, Carter, JVR, Lupul, bobrovsky, we got streit, lecavalier, emery... Pronger is still technically part of the team and might even coach!
- JoeRussomanno

That would be amazing Prongs and Lappy behind the bench

Honestly Ob? I think that core is the biggest question as of now. A core is the foundation and why teams like Chicago/Detriot stay competitive.

I think management has overrated the current core. Just like they did with Richards/Carter, players who excelled under a more secondary role in LA.
- flyer_nutter

Detroit's core is Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franson etc. They are fully developed NHL stars. Chicago's core is Keith, Sharpe, Hossa, Toews, etc. Again players that are further along in their development then the Flyers are.

And the Carter/Richards secondary role in LA doesn't hold water either. Both are top line, top minute all situation players in LA.

The Flyers core isn't overrated. What's overrated is the fans patience. The frustration is understandable.

How are infants MacKinnon, Monahan, and Hertl doing? I think Couturier is the Gerber bananas in their diapers.
- PLindbergh31

funy, but harsh. and a bit unfair. lets see how mackinnon, monahan, and hertl are doing in 2 -3 years.

coots is still very much a kid. anybody can have a spell of success. well, almost anybody.