So now it's the knee...?

It's the forward momentum from launching himself into the hit.
- Fosco

I'm not defending Moore's hit...you realize that right? Jeez. Moore should have been suspended...even though the league was much different back then.

But the simple fact is that Edler made contact with Hertl's head, plus he's a repeat offender. He no longer gets the benefit of the doubt in these types of situations.

God you're a baby.
- djamon

Nice one.

Seriously, who's making it personal now?

All I said was that it was "typical" of you to take a stance against the Canucks.

No personal insult there. Only the truth. You don't come in here for any other reason to be negative.

If I came into the Leaf's board and did the same, I'd expect the same treatment back.

I'm not defending Moore's hit...you realize that right? Jeez. Moore should have been suspended...even though the league was much different back then.

But the simple fact is that Edler made contact with Hertl's, plus he's a repeat offender. He no longer gets the benefit of the doubt in these types of situations.
- djamon

There shouldn't be any "benefit of the doubt".

It's an entirely clean hit.

Edler does none of the things that Moore does which makes his hit dirty. No elbow, no targeting the head, no launch, and no leaving his feet.

Watch the video I posted. Clear motion towards Naslund's head by Moore's arm, and he leaves his feet as he launches through.

It's pretty clear.
- Fosco

Fair enough. Thats your interpretation. Ive seen it many times and just like we want hertl to protect himself Nas should have also. He left himself vulnerable to a hit like that by lunging forward. I agree that the moore hit is dirty. But Edler deserves to be suspended. He made contact with the head. Nothing more to it.

There shouldn't be any "benefit of the doubt".

It's an entirely clean hit.
- Fosco

"Clean hit"?

I think maybe you've taken a few too many head shots as well.

"Clean hit"?

I think maybe you've taken a few too many head shots as well.
- djamon

Making it personal again, huh...

So much for mr. holier than thou...

That hit is entirely clean if Hertl doesn't put himself in a vulnerable position. The responsibility is on him.

I would agree with you if Edler targets the head, uses his elbow, or leaves his feet, but he doesn't.

Fair enough. Thats your interpretation. Ive seen it many times and just like we want hertl to protect himself Nas should have also. He left himself vulnerable to a hit like that by lunging forward. I agree that the moore hit is dirty. But Edler deserves to be suspended. He made contact with the head. Nothing more to it.
- Bluechip23

I agree that Naslund makes himself vulnerable, but that doesn't negate the things that Moore does wrong on the play, which you keep ignoring.

He clearly targets the head with his arm, launches through the hit, and leaves his feet.

Edler doesn't do any of these things. Plain and simple.

Fair enough. Thats your interpretation. Ive seen it many times and just like we want hertl to protect himself Nas should have also. He left himself vulnerable to a hit like that by lunging forward. I agree that the moore hit is dirty. But Edler deserves to be suspended. He made contact with the head. Nothing more to it.
- Bluechip23

To me that's wrong, if you're going to punish players for hitting the head when it isn't their intent, then maybe you should ban hitting altogether. You're asking 6'3"+ 230lbs+ players to try and adjust or let up at full speed (which in a game situation can be as fast as a car on a highway with just as much or less time to react to changing variables such as body position, where the puck is and is headed, players around you, etc.) and that's next to impossible. This isn't beer league or minor hockey, you just can't expect the hitter to be able to adjust quick enough to avoid head contact unless you bring back the dead puck era and the interference and hooking and holding that slowed players down which would kill the game anyways. I've always maintained that it's the hittee's responsibility to be able to take a check properly and to avoid putting themselves in a vulnerable position when attempting to play the puck. It's not fair to put all the onus on the hitter, because the next thing you know, players will be pulling Marchand's and low-bridging everyone because they're afraid of potentially hitting a player in the head and getting suspended and labelled repeat offenders.

I agree that Naslund makes himself vulnerable, but that doesn't negate the things that Moore does wrong on the play, which you keep ignoring.

He clearly targets the head with his arm, launches through the hit, and leaves his feet.

Edler doesn't do any of these things. Plain and simple.
- Fosco

I dont think he targets the head. It was a bang bang play. If Nas is upright vs lunging does he make contact with the head. No way. Like I said I think Moore's hit is dirty. Edler made contact with the head. It deserves a suspension.

To me that's wrong, if you're going to punish players for hitting the head when it isn't their intent, then maybe you should ban hitting altogether. You're asking 6'3"+ 230lbs+ players to try and adjust or let up at full speed (which in a game situation can be as fast as a car on a highway with just as much or less time to react to changing variables such as body position, where the puck is and is headed, players around you, etc.) and that's next to impossible. This isn't beer league or minor hockey, you just can't expect the hitter to be able to adjust quick enough to avoid head contact unless you bring back the dead puck era and the interference and hooking and holding that slowed players down which would kill the game anyways. I've always maintained that it's the hittee's responsibility to be able to take a check properly and to avoid putting themselves in a vulnerable position when attempting to play the puck. It's not fair to put all the onus on the hitter, because the next thing you know, players will be pulling Marchand's and low-bridging everyone because they're afraid of potentially hitting a player in the head and getting suspended and labelled repeat offenders.
- DariusKnight

Good post.

Making it personal again, huh...

So much for mr. holier than thou...

That hit is entirely clean if Hertl doesn't put himself in a vulnerable position. The responsibility is on him.

I would agree with you if Edler targets the head, uses his elbow, or leaves his feet, but he doesn't.
- Fosco

Please tell me you understand how stupid this sentence is. Please tell me you realize that players are not allowed to take advantage of another player who is in a vulnerable position.

Because if you haven't learned that yet I would suggest you take your computer and hit yourself over the head with it.

To me that's wrong, if you're going to punish players for hitting the head when it isn't their intent, then maybe you should ban hitting altogether. You're asking 6'3"+ 230lbs+ players to try and adjust or let up at full speed (which in a game situation can be as fast as a car on a highway with just as much or less time to react to changing variables such as body position, where the puck is and is headed, players around you, etc.) and that's next to impossible. This isn't beer league or minor hockey, you just can't expect the hitter to be able to adjust quick enough to avoid head contact unless you bring back the dead puck era and the interference and hooking and holding that slowed players down which would kill the game anyways. I've always maintained that it's the hittee's responsibility to be able to take a check properly and to avoid putting themselves in a vulnerable position when attempting to play the puck. It's not fair to put all the onus on the hitter, because the next thing you know, players will be pulling Marchand's and low-bridging everyone because they're afraid of potentially hitting a player in the head and getting suspended and labelled repeat offenders.
- DariusKnight

Totally agree. But same thing in the NFL. Its played lightning fast as well but the league expects head contact to be eliminated. ALl im saying is the same thing can be said about the nas vs moore hit. How can you expect moore who is going for the puck to all of a sudden in a split second stop and see that nas is lunged over in a vulnerable position and change where his elbow is. We cant praise edler for following thru and not praise moore for the same thing

I'm not defending Moore's hit...you realize that right? Jeez. Moore should have been suspended...even though the league was much different back then.

But the simple fact is that Edler made contact with Hertl's head, plus he's a repeat offender. He no longer gets the benefit of the doubt in these types of situations.
- djamon

Umm, maybe watch both hits in slow motion again. Moore was initially targeting the head, I watched Edler's hit slowly ad you can see that he had Hertl's shoulder line sup with his unit Hertl moved out of the way and actually put the side of his head just barely in the way.



Watch both again slowly so that you can see how the bodies and targets were aligned and get back to me. Moore has Naslund targeted much higher, Edler was actually leaning down quite a bit and made a point of it not to target too high or extend an elbow.

Hertl put his own head in harm's away at the last second by trying to completely get out of the way(a natural reaction). Edler was original targeting his shoulder and couldn't adjust within that second.

Yeti. Your goalie got a start. Too bad he has let in a crap ton of goals and has a GAA of 10. LOL.

Let me know when you want to do bernie for Ovi.

I dont think he targets the head. It was a bang bang play. If Nas is upright vs lunging does he make contact with the head. No way. Like I said I think Moore's hit is dirty. Edler made contact with the head. It deserves a suspension.
- Bluechip23

Then you're blind. Seriously, did you watch the video? There is clear and blatant motion to the head with Moore's elbow, and he follows through the hit with his upper body.

It's as clear as day.

Edler comes into Hertl with his shoulder squared and maintains that position—it's Hertl, who lowers his head and opens his body that causes the contact with the head.

Edler isn't, and can't be responsible for that.

If Hertl doesn't reach, lower his head, and open his body, that's a shoulder to shoulder hit.

Please tell me you understand how stupid this sentence is. Please tell me you realize that players are not allowed to take advantage of another player who is in a vulnerable position.

Because if you haven't learned that yet I would suggest you take your computer and hit yourself over the head with it.
- djamon

So everyone should just turn away from the hitter making it illegal to hit anyone.... hmmmm you really are a tool..... Go play poo pirates with your buddy system tool.

Please tell me you understand how stupid this sentence is. Please tell me you realize that players are not allowed to take advantage of another player who is in a vulnerable position.

Because if you haven't learned that yet I would suggest you take your computer and hit yourself over the head with it.
- djamon

Another great point of contention. You're sounding more intelligent with every post...

Nothing Edler does leading up to contact is illegal. He's lining up for a clean shoulder check. Hertl turns and reaches, changing the point of contact.

Edler isn't taking advantage of anything. He's finishing a check, and doesn't have time to adjust to Hertl's movement.

Then you're blind. Seriously, did you watch the video? There is clear and blatant motion to the head with Moore's elbow, and he follows through the hit with his upper body.

It's as clear as day.

Edler comes into Hertl with his shoulder squared and maintains that position—it's Hertl, who lowers his head and opens his body that causes the contact with the head.

Edler isn't, and can't be responsible for that.

If Hertl doesn't reach, lower his head, and open his body, that's a shoulder to shoulder hit.
- Fosco

Maybe I am blind then. I did have lasik surgery a few years back but its probably wearing out.

So if Nas doesnt lung and reach for the puck its not a head hit as well regardless of if he targeted the head or not. Bottom line is nas lunged and lowered the target zone just like hertl did. Both resulted in a head hit and both are dirty.

To me that's wrong, if you're going to punish players for hitting the head when it isn't their intent, then maybe you should ban hitting altogether. You're asking 6'3"+ 230lbs+ players to try and adjust or let up at full speed (which in a game situation can be as fast as a car on a highway with just as much or less time to react to changing variables such as body position, where the puck is and is headed, players around you, etc.) and that's next to impossible. This isn't beer league or minor hockey, you just can't expect the hitter to be able to adjust quick enough to avoid head contact unless you bring back the dead puck era and the interference and hooking and holding that slowed players down which would kill the game anyways. I've always maintained that it's the hittee's responsibility to be able to take a check properly and to avoid putting themselves in a vulnerable position when attempting to play the puck. It's not fair to put all the onus on the hitter, because the next thing you know, players will be pulling Marchand's and low-bridging everyone because they're afraid of potentially hitting a player in the head and getting suspended and labelled repeat offenders.
- DariusKnight

That the NHL is a complete joke has been well established. That the NHL continues to do their best to perpetuate such a perspective is laughable.

We are on a very slippery slope here, when these types of hits are deemed suspendable. I would not be at all be surprised if this league turns into a semi-contact sport in the not too distant future.

Maybe I am blind then. I did have lasik surgery a few years back but its probably wearing out.

So if Nas doesnt lung and reach for the puck its not a head hit as well regardless of if he targeted the head or not. Bottom line is nas lunged and lowered the target zone just like hertl did. Both resulted in a head hit and both are dirty.
- Bluechip23

The only way you could compare the 2 is, IF edler elbowed Hertl in the head..... HE DIDN'T.... Soooo no comparison because Moore clearly did.

Please tell me you understand how stupid this sentence is. Please tell me you realize that players are not allowed to take advantage of another player who is in a vulnerable position.

Because if you haven't learned that yet I would suggest you take your computer and hit yourself over the head with it.
- djamon

I used to play hockey at a high level (Junior B), and through bantam, midget and beyond, we were always taught that as a puck carrier, it was our responsibility to square ourselves when we expected to be hit because if not we shouldn't whine when we got injured.As hitters, we were told to aim for the crest on the jersey and to follow through, and this is at speeds of bicycling downhill with a lot of momentum AND with players that are all different sizes due to puberty and the like. You try and transpose that and make the players almost a foot or more tall and 50 pounds heavier and skating at highway speeds and tell me if it's that easy to avoid a player in a vulnerable position when you're committed to hit it and if you say it is, I'll call you a liar. Anyone here that's played hockey beyond a rec league in minor hockey will agree with me.

Maybe I am blind then. I did have lasik surgery a few years back but its probably wearing out.

So if Nas doesnt lung and reach for the puck its not a head hit as well regardless of if he targeted the head or not. Bottom line is nas lunged and lowered the target zone just like hertl did. Both resulted in a head hit and both are dirty.
- Bluechip23

It does matter that the head was targeted, because that's what makes it illegal...

Oh, and leaving his feet.

You can't just say "well regardless of everything else that happened, they both made contact with the head, so they're the same..."

I used to play hockey at a high level (Junior B), and through bantam, midget and beyond, we were always taught that as a puck carrier, it was our responsibility to square ourselves when we expected to be hit because if not we shouldn't whine when we got injured.As hitters, we were told to aim for the crest on the jersey and to follow through, and this is at speeds of bicycling downhill with a lot of momentum AND with players that are all different sizes due to puberty and the like. You try and transpose that and make the players almost a foot or more tall and 50 pounds heavier and skating at highway speeds and tell me if it's that easy to avoid a player in a vulnerable position when you're committed to hit it and if you say it is, I'll call you a liar. Anyone here that's played hockey beyond a rec league in minor hockey will agree with me.
- DariusKnight

Bang on!!! In hockey school we did hitting drills to learn how to take a hit as well as throw one.

I used to play hockey at a high level (Junior B), and through bantam, midget and beyond, we were always taught that as a puck carrier, it was our responsibility to square ourselves when we expected to be hit because if not we shouldn't whine when we got injured.As hitters, we were told to aim for the crest on the jersey and to follow through, and this is at speeds of bicycling downhill with a lot of momentum AND with players that are all different sizes due to puberty and the like. You try and transpose that and make the players almost a foot or more tall and 50 pounds heavier and skating at highway speeds and tell me if it's that easy to avoid a player in a vulnerable position when you're committed to hit it and if you say it is, I'll call you a liar. Anyone here that's played hockey beyond a rec league in minor hockey will agree with me.
- DariusKnight

Well said, it always seems to be armchair pundits who have either never played the game or have only played it a very low level that always know better.

On a bit of a side-note, no one seems to bring up the fact that once you commit to a hit there is no way you can make any sort of attempt to stop or even mitigate a situation. In fact, not following through on a hit can often cause injury to the hitter.

Maybe I am blind then. I did have lasik surgery a few years back but its probably wearing out.

So if Nas doesnt lung and reach for the puck its not a head hit as well regardless of if he targeted the head or not. Bottom line is nas lunged and lowered the target zone just like hertl did. Both resulted in a head hit and both are dirty.
- Bluechip23

Bingo.

The similarities are that both hits were made dirty by the actions of the guy getting hit. But in one case Canuck fans screamed blue murder and in the other they saw nothing wrong.

Newsflash...they were both dirty hits.