That's because +/- has a lot to do with team play and favorable/unfavorable match ups!

I'm telling you right now that Schenn was on a bad 5 on 5 team and had unfavorable match ups
- PhillySportsGuy

I think the more telling stat was the time on ice per game he played late in the year. Unfortunately, there's no stat to show how well he played in those big minutes when he was the only vet left. It's another one of those things where watching the player trumps stats.

Interesting, I thought towards the end of last season when he was called upon to be the man, he definitely established himself as a total beast. He's struggled early this season, but going into the season I would've said he's our #2 dman behind kimmo. I still remember his amazing 32 minute showing last season.
- JAKEw1234

This.

Right now means the present. And currently he's not playing anywhere close to the level of a 2nd pairing defenseman.
- PLindbergh31

Ok. Let me rephrase!

Over the course of this 82 game season, I believe Schenn will be a good 2nd pairing defenseman.

Ok. Let me rephrase!

Over the course of this 82 game season, I believe Schenn will be a good 2nd pairing defenseman.
- PhillySportsGuy

BUT HE'S BEEN BAD FOR 4 GAMES!

Interesting, I thought towards the end of last season when he was called upon to be the man, he definitely established himself as a total beast. He's struggled early this season, but going into the season I would've said he's our #2 dman behind kimmo. I still remember his amazing 32 minute showing last season.
- JAKEw1234

Last season doesn't matter. A player's potential should only be judged on the last 4 games hes played.

Hertl is a hall of famer right now.

Interesting, I thought towards the end of last season when he was called upon to be the man, he definitely established himself as a total beast. He's struggled early this season, but going into the season I would've said he's our #2 dman behind kimmo. I still remember his amazing 32 minute showing last season.
- JAKEw1234

He's still very young.

Maybe he'll learn to become more consistent.

That'd be my secondary concern. How disciplined he would be on and off the ice in this mix.

Because he's produced a ton of points for the Jets/Thrashers hasn't gotten them into the playoff yet.
- Jsaquella

So to speak, there's a difference being a true #1 and being a #1 by necessity.

Montreal's got a #1 in Subban, but then a bunch of number 4-5-6.
Which means a some of them are #2 and #3 by default.

Does it make you feel better if I use the terrible habs defense as an example?
- Pecafan Fan

luke schenn played well last year. you disagree. got it. who cares.

Ok. Let me rephrase!

Over the course of this 82 game season, I believe Schenn will be a good 2nd pairing defenseman.
- PhillySportsGuy

Think he can be a pretty decent Chris Therien clone, but I suspect that he won't ever be able to control a game physically like he was able to do as a teen, and that precludes him from having the kind of impact that you look for from a top-pairing kind of guy.

He's still very young.

Maybe he'll learn to become more consistent.
- Pecafan Fan

If I recall, he got off to an equally slow start last season. He struggled in the first few games then really settled in and began to play well.

Maybe he needs a few games under him before he really kicks it into gear.

This is key. There has been a lot of talk about Buff and the need for his offensive production, but he's hardly a two way defenseman, which I agree, is what the Flyers are sorely lacking.
- mcefalu

He's also not a bad defensive player. He faced the second best quality of competition, had as many defensive zone starts as he did offensive zone starts and had more of his shifts end in the opponent's zone than his own.

He's a highly effective player, despite not being the two way defenseman that Timonen was in past years, he's hardly a big fat Mike Green, as it seems some are making him out to be.

He's still very young.

Maybe he'll learn to become more consistent.
- Pecafan Fan

He's been bad for 4 games?

luke schenn played well last year. you disagree. got it. who cares.
- -davies-

All I'm saying is he's not better than his rookie season.

Think he can be a pretty decent Chris Therien clone, but I suspect that he won't ever be able to control a game physically like he was able to do as a teen, and that precludes him from having the kind of impact that you look for from a top-pairing kind of guy.
- Tomahawk

I know. Plus, I think the best top pairings are made up of two guys who can provide a little offense. Not saying they need to be Keith/Seabrook or Shattenkirk/Pietrangelo, but they each need to be able to give a little something.

I don't think Schenn will ever be that type of player.

All I'm saying is he's not better than his rookie season.
- Pecafan Fan

k

Last season doesn't matter. A player's potential should only be judged on the last 4 games hes played.

Hertl is a hall of famer right now.
- PhillySportsGuy

He'll have the single-season goal scoring record broken by game 47. Unfortunately, he's 0.28 Pts/GP off the single season points record, so he's a bust.

He's also not a bad defensive player. He faced the second best quality of competition, had as many defensive zone starts as he did offensive zone starts and had more of his shifts end in the opponent's zone than his own.

He's a highly effective player, despite not being the two way defenseman that Timonen was in past years, he's hardly a big fat Mike Green, as it seems some are making him out to be.
- Jsaquella

That's probably true, I'm just not ready to make him out to be an elite defenseman either. Again, like you said previously, it comes down to the price, for me

I know. Plus, I think the best top pairings are made up of two guys who can provide a little offense. Not saying they need to be Keith/Seabrook or Shattenkirk/Pietrangelo, but they each need to be able to give a little something.

I don't think Schenn will ever be that type of player.
- PhillySportsGuy

I think he's a very good top-4 defenseman right now. No more, no less. That can change either way.

So to speak, there's a difference being a true #1 and being a #1 by necessity.
- BulliesPhan87

There is, but Winnipeg actually has some very capable defensemen and good depth on their blueline. Enstrom, Hainsey, Bogosian and Mark Stuart gave them a pretty solid top five last year, and this year, with the addition of a tremendously talented rookie like Jacob Trouba, Byfuglien's two way role has actually increased.

k
- -davies-

He's shown little to no progression, hence why the Leafs didn't mind seeing him go.

You guys probably felt the same way towards JVR at the time of the trade.

Interesting. He's played like a # 8 so far. Last on the team in ice time, and doesn't sniff PP time.
- PLindbergh31

He was second on the team in ATOI last year, and first equal amongst defensemen in +/-. 47 game sample versus a 4 game sample.

He'll have the single-season goal scoring record broken by game 47. Unfortunately, he's 0.28 Pts/GP off the single season points record, so he's a bust.
- jmatchett383

He's the next Nodl.

Wows us with unbelievable stick handling but can't finish

He was second on the team in ATOI last year, and first equal amongst defensemen in +/-.
- Feanor

I understand what he did last year. I said he was struggling this year so far, and of course people take it to the extreme.

There is, but Winnipeg actually has some very capable defensemen and good depth on their blueline. Enstrom, Hainsey, Bogosian and Mark Stuart gave them a pretty solid top five last year, and this year, with the addition of a tremendously talented rookie like Jacob Trouba, Byfuglien's two way role has actually increased.
- Jsaquella

You saw that Bogosian giveaway. Dude's a bust.

I think he's a very good top-4 defenseman right now. No more, no less. That can change either way.
- jmatchett383

That was my original argument which was met with quite a bit of disagreement.

I don't know if he'll ever be a top pairing dman though.

That's probably true, I'm just not ready to make him out to be an elite defenseman either. Again, like you said previously, it comes down to the price, for me
- mcefalu

Oh, I'm not calling him elite. He puts up points at close to an elite level, but he's not in a class with Weber, Doughty or Pietrangelo as all around defensemen.

If he was, I wouldn;t bat an eye at including a Schenn or Couturier to land him.