I understand being frustrated about that kind of thinking. But forgetting all about trying to replace Pronger per se, if you have a chance of getting a 28 yr old, proven top point producing d man who also has size and strong physical play, I think you keep your eyes open and strike if the deal is there and it is fairly/reasonable. There are only a precious few D men in the NHL today who can produce as well as bring the physical game (at his size) like Buff, so it's more about obtaining one of the top assets in the league as opposed to chasing yesterday's great players imo.
- exlund

And you hit it on the head with a "fair/reasonable" deal.

I don't think the asking price for Byfuglien would be either and would likely create even more holes on a team that has more than enough holes/redundant players, unfortunately.

I don't consider him a top asset. But part of that may be unending hatred for every member of the 2010 Chicago Blackhawks. That's doubly true for Kris "Mouthpiece" Versteeg.
- jmatchett383

Really? I couldn't hate Jonathan Toews even if he punched me in the face.

Never realized they had 3.

BTW I heard the reason Hartnell was struggling was because he cut his hair...
- youarewrong

When the Flyers have G with Hartnell and Voracek, they have a ginger line.

Lavvy probably separated them because he realized that would only incur the opening of the Hellmouth at the Wells Fargo Center.

I would like to take a poll. Who here thinks the Flyers need another 3rd line winger?
- youarewrong

I do.

But I'm more worried about the top line having Simmonds and Hartnell on it. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see them being able to have enough puck possession to make that combination work offensively.

Has anyone seen this video. Funny as anything. Hope I don't get banned:-). Pens fans will hate it though. http://youtu.be/7SS-wk1o0L0
- section32

That would've worked for whatever team they had video for. Funniest thing ive seen in a long time.

And he has always produced. His production was down last year and people attributed it to coming into camp over weight. If Buff is at his best game at just over what must players weight are then that is fine for buff as long as he is still producing. To me his weight is a non-issue. If the Flyers dont like it, they could address it.
- youarewrong

A team like the Flyers that already has significant defensive issues, does not need an undisciplined defenseman who is constantly running around and out of position. The number of points he would produce is not the issue.

You may be in the minority, but you're not alone -- I like what Nicklas Grossmann does, but at some point, you do have to be able to move well enough to play the game.

I mean, come on, folks. Ignore the Flyers for a moment. Let's talk basketball. You can't have a basketball team composed entirely of players who can't shoot.

The Flyers...have a lot of defensemen who don't move well. We shouldn't keep them all -- and I'm prepared to see any one of them not in the lineup at any given day/time.
- AllInForFlyers

I agree that the Flyers as a team need to change the mix of their defense. But that's not Nik Grossman's fault. And it shouldn't be used as a negative to evaluate his play on the ice.

Really? I couldn't hate Jonathan Toews even if he punched me in the face.
- KGBflyers10

I saw that man take the Stanley Cup live on the Flyers' ice. I respect him , but I hate him. Kind of like Wes Mantooth's view of Ron Burgundy.

That would've worked for whatever team they had video for. Funniest thing ive seen in a long time.
- twotoekenn

That guy really nailed Crosby.

This is true. Why can't we acknowledge this is true?

Hits mean you don't have the puck. Blocked shots mean the other team is shooting.

Can't we all agree, please, that if you're leading the league in both of those categories, you don't have the puck nearly as much as you'd like?

Please? Please, can we do this? Just for my sanity?
- AllInForFlyers

That's where the flaw in the thinking is. As a tool to look at a team's performance, that philosophy is certainly reasonable. When that thinking is used to evaluate a player, that's where the flaw is.

At the right price, I'd think you'd definitely have to consider a guy like Byfuglien.

Despite the issues, which seem to be 90% off ice, the guy produces and plays a ton of minutes. He's not one to miss a lot of games and he skates well for such a large man.

His cap hit isn't bad for what he brings, plus he's a former Cup winner.

That's where the flaw in the thinking is. As a tool to look at a team's performance, that philosophy is certainly reasonable. When that thinking is used to evaluate a player, that's where the flaw is.
- MJL

This perceived need is not a part of the trade you proposed.
- MJL

Never said it was. It was infered. But silly of me to assume you could read between the lines, even after I explained that I think Talbot is a better 4th liner and they are in need of a 3rd liner. Sorry I had to spell it out for you, again.

At the right price, I'd think you'd definitely have to consider a guy like Byfuglien.

Despite the issues, which seem to be 90% off ice, the guy produces and plays a ton of minutes. He's not one to miss a lot of games and he skates well for such a large man.

His cap hit isn't bad for what he brings, plus he's a former Cup winner.
- Jsaquella

For the right price (3rd+ rounder/C+ prospects or UFA signing), I'd consider him. But I wouldn't rip a hole in my current lineup or prospect pool for him.

You may be in the minority, but you're not alone -- I like what Nicklas Grossmann does, but at some point, you do have to be able to move well enough to play the game.

I mean, come on, folks. Ignore the Flyers for a moment. Let's talk basketball. You can't have a basketball team composed entirely of players who can't shoot.

The Flyers...have a lot of defensemen who don't move well. We shouldn't keep them all -- and I'm prepared to see any one of them not in the lineup at any given day/time.
- AllInForFlyers

I don't know....The Sixers are trying PRETTY hard to disprove you

At the right price, I'd think you'd definitely have to consider a guy like Byfuglien.

Despite the issues, which seem to be 90% off ice, the guy produces and plays a ton of minutes. He's not one to miss a lot of games and he skates well for such a large man.

His cap hit isn't bad for what he brings, plus he's a former Cup winner.
- Jsaquella

Since you the only person willing to discuss what the right price might be, I think the lowest price they would take is Read, Mez, and Cousins. But I would be willing to go as high as Simmonds, Mez, Cousins.

I'm really starting to sour on Simmonds.

I'd heard reports on personality issues (not sure exactly what was said, it was a while back). But even if that weren't the case, something about him just puts me off. He seems a bit undisciplined and prone to bad penalties. If you want to compare him to Pronger, Pronger knew when to pick his spots (more or less). He puts up great offensive numbers, and he can hit, but his lack of discipline and defensive miscues make me say do not want.
- jmatchett383

Comparing Byfuglien to Pronger in any manner is just plain insane.

Since you the only person willing to discuss what the right price might be, I think the lowest price they would take is Read, Mez, and Cousins. But I would be willing to go as high as Simmonds, Mez, Cousins.

I'm really starting to sour on Simmonds.
- youarewrong

I'd be open to either the active roster forward and Mez or Cousins and Mez.

Not both the active roster forward AND Cousins.

Since you the only person willing to discuss what the right price might be, I think the lowest price they would take is Read, Mez, and Cousins. But I would be willing to go as high as Simmonds, Mez, Cousins.

I'm really starting to sour on Simmonds.
- youarewrong

Honestly, I don't know if I'd even move Cousins for him. I mean, I wouldn't want him in the deal.

But that's the issue; we are having a hard enough time trying to build solid top-9 forwards. If we move Read or Simmonds, that creates a huge gap in the top-9 and you're losing a proven 20+ goal scorer. So I wouldn't do it unless one of the AHL forwards looks like they can play well in the top-9.

My proposal would be Meszaros, 3rd rounder, and a guy like Akeson or Manning.

I don't consider him a top asset. But part of that may be unending hatred for every member of the 2010 Chicago Blackhawks. That's doubly true for Kris "Mouthpiece" Versteeg.
- jmatchett383

Haaaaaaaated Versteeg on the Hawks, was skeptical of him here, have resumed hating him in Fla. Kid has made so much money on so little talent.

Since you the only person willing to discuss what the right price might be, I think the lowest price they would take is Read, Mez, and Cousins. But I would be willing to go as high as Simmonds, Mez, Cousins.

I'm really starting to sour on Simmonds.
- youarewrong

I don't think they'd want any part of Meszaros. I'd probably be willing to part with Read in the package, but they'd have to take either Grossmann or Meszaros for the money to work out, as well as clear room on the roster. I'd rather offer them McGinn or a pick than Cousins.

But I do think you're in the neighborhood, and I'd be willing to consider something in that range of cost.

For the right price (3rd+ rounder/C+ prospects or UFA signing), I'd consider him. But I wouldn't rip a hole in my current lineup or prospect pool for him.
- jmatchett383

I wouldn't take Byfuglien at any price in a trade. I have zero interest.

I'd heard reports on personality issues (not sure exactly what was said, it was a while back). But even if that weren't the case, something about him just puts me off. He seems a bit undisciplined and prone to bad penalties. If you want to compare him to Pronger, Pronger knew when to pick his spots (more or less). He puts up great offensive numbers, and he can hit, but his lack of discipline and defensive miscues make me say do not want.
- jmatchett383

I dunno, alot of that sounds kind of vague and unsubstantiated. "something about him just puts me off" (hmm maybe some hate left from the Cup series when he was in Chicago?). Do you have links to reference those issues you mentioned? Most big D men have their moments of in game "discipline lapses" Pronger sure had his share of suspensions and ill advised penalties, Weber too. Buff's PIM numbers don't imply much of an issue there imo. The defensive miscues, I think aren't more than you'd see from a lot ofhe better, high-producing D men in the league, do you have something that indicates otherwise? I'm not sure where this perception about Buff comes from and/or if it is justified.

I wouldn't take Byfuglien at any price in a trade. I have zero interest.
- MJL

but what does Chief think?

I wouldn't take Byfuglien at any price in a trade. I have zero interest.
- MJL

What if his fitness and committment issues were proven to be resolved? What other issues are there with him that would make you so unequivocally opposed to adding a top producing D man in his prime even if the price was a 3rd rd pick or whatever "any price" means?